No 7 vs No 8 and No5 vs No5 1/2

[eoinsgaff]

I've got a wallet 'burning a hole in my pocket' even though its as good as empty. In another thread I've out lined some problems I've had with a Bedrock 605 and I'm seriously thinking of buying a new LN jack.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/bedr ... 42789.html

So, is the 5 1/2 worth the extra cash over the No. 5 and if so why?


Of course this has also got me thinking about getting myself a fully fledged joiner plane. I've have a No. 6 fore plane, also a Bedrock, which is fine but, again theres that burning sensation down the outside of my right thigh. So, as with the jack plane, is the no 8 worth the additional cash over the no. 7 and why?

I've a fair idea of the answer to both but I hope everybodies input will help crystallize my thoughts.

Many thanks

Eoin

 

[Racers]

Hi, Eoin

My go to planes are LN 60 ½ block plane Record 5 ½ SS and a Record No8.

The LN is nice plane for knocking corners off, trimming chamfering etc.

The 5 ½ is used for most normal planning I like the extra weight over the No5.

The No8 is for edge jointing, flattening boards.

I also have a Record 4 ½ set up as a smoother for things I don’t want to use the 5 ½ on.

I have Stanley 4 ½ set for coarse shavings and a Stanley 60 ½ that I take out with me, so as not to damage my good planes.

Pete

 

[matthewwh]

From a practical perspective the 5-1/2 and 7 share a common iron size which gives you more flexibility. If you intend to use a jack in the strictly traditional mannor - across the board with a heavy camber on the iron - then a 5 works better. If you intend to use it like a 6 as a trueing plane the 5-1/2 would be a better choice.

The 8 would get things marginally flatter but that margin can be important for larger workpieces, if you don't do much work over 6 feet long there is minimal advantage. Theoretically an 8 will cover a board faster than a 7 because of the wider cutting iron but it's a beast of a thing to push for area work.

 

[eoinsgaff]

Thanks for than Matthew.
In my minds eye the No. 8 is perfect for such work as flattening my bench top. But would it be fair to say it would be unwieldy for most types of work?

As for the 5 1/2 I want it for removing larger volumes of material, but not remotely to the extent of a scrub plane.

If that makes sense...

Eoin

 

[Saint Simon]

Just a quiet word for the scrub plane. Cheapish, compared to its bigger brothers, feels very nice in the hand and can be quite subtle when approaching a line. My best buy all year!
Most flattening things now seem to be done with the scrub and then the 5½.
Simon

 

[Benchwayze]

So, is the 5 1/2 worth the extra cash over the No. 5 and if so why?

Many thanks

Eoin

In a word, yes.

I believe you can buy different pitch frogs for these planes, so the versatility of the plane is enhanced.

No question that I would buy a Lie Nielsen 5-1/2, if I didn't already own a Clifton, and want to buy the LN smoother first.

HTH

John .

 

[eoinsgaff]

Thanks John and Simon. I think I can live without the scrub plane for now

However, without even trying the 5 1/2 I'm very much drawn to it. I love the bedrock shape and its proportions make it look very beefy. It looks like a tool that would work and work well.

My 'policy' is to buy only tools that I'll use and I'll definitely use the 5 1/2 but I have to be honest and admit the looks are having a disproportionate influence on me.

I'm just trying to prevent myself from making a mistake by allowing the looks to decide if I buy or not. Its the same with the No.7 or the No.8 dilemma.

 

[ac445ab]

Ciao,
If you work mainly by hand then I think you can find the right situation for using the n°5 1/2 as well as n° 8. All depends by size of pieces you have to plane. The n°5 is a must to have on the bench, very valuable for its manoeuvrability. For longer and larger boards the 5 1/2 will be your favorite jack plane.
For panel jointing I prefer the n° 8 to the n°7, for smaller pieces also. Its longer sole helps me to obtain perfect sides to glue up with only few shots.

Giuliano

 

[RogerS]

Thanks John and Simon. I think I can live without the scrub plane for now

....

I can't! One of the most useful tools I've bought. Great for hogging off prior to planing either by hand or by machine especially if there is lots of cup or twist or bow.

 

[woodbloke]

Thanks John and Simon. I think I can live without the scrub plane for now

....

I can't! One of the most useful tools I've bought. Great for hogging off prior to planing either by hand or by machine especially if there is lots of cup or twist or bow.

Agreed, same here. I've just bought a continental style one, lovely little plane and takes off timber like it's going out of fashion :shock: - Rob

 

[matthewwh]

Thanks for than Matthew.
In my minds eye the No. 8 is perfect for such work as flattening my bench top. But would it be fair to say it would be unwieldy for most types of work?

As for the 5 1/2 I want it for removing larger volumes of material, but not remotely to the extent of a scrub plane.

If that makes sense...

Eoin

Absolute sense, and you are spot on, the traditional technique for a jack is very similar to a scrub - i.e. still used across the grain but it has a shallower camber so it removes less material and refines the average flatness of the surface before the try plane comes along and clips the tops off the ridges to give you a flat surface.

For a riven board you would start with a scrub (across), then fore (along), jack (across), try - same derivation as the word 'true' (along) and then smoothing planes and scrapers to hit up any low spots or patches of reversing grain on the show side.

In practice we now use sawn boards most of the time and unless the board is badly out of shape there is rarely need for a scrub, although when the need does arise they are very rewarding tools to use.

No.7's are proper full size try planes for final levelling of large panels - in theory this would be the right plane for things the size of your benchtop, if most of the things you intend to make in the future are smaller than your bench then a No.6 is probably a better option.

No.8's are really specialist planes - too long for comfortable daily use, they are intended for jobs where accuracy is absolutely critical, like edge jointing long boards for a banqueting table. The edges need to be extremely flat - flatter than a surface would need to be - but practicality must be sacrificed in order to achieve this.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Absolute sense, and you are spot on, the traditional technique for a jack is very similar to a scrub - i.e. still used across the grain but it has a shallower camber so it removes less material and refines the average flatness of the surface before the try plane comes along and clips the tops off the ridges to give you a flat surface.

It's also worth considering the use of a toothed blade. I saw Deneb Puchalski demonstrate it at West Dean and have used one ever since. Here's a demo http://www.youtube.com/user/LieNielsen# ... pxKo1vjOwA

Deneb uses one in a bevel-up plane but I use a bevel-down blade, usually in my old Record #7

Probably use it more than the scrub now. Does a similar job but no tear out.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[eoinsgaff]

Thanks everyone for the advice so far. I'm splashed out on the LN 5 1/2, so that puts that argument to bed for now. Its a matter of resisting the no 7/8 for the foreseeable future.

I really want tools to use and I think Matthewwh has convinced me of the sound practicality of the No.7 over the No.8. I suspected as much but I probably needed convincing. It makes since when one considers that LN appear to be the only maker of a No. 8. I wonder if they sell many of them.

 

[jimi43]

What make is that toothed iron Paul?

Jim

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Jim,

It's a Kunz blade which I bought from **** tools in Germany http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/product ... detail.jsf

Just remember that if you use a toothed blade in a bevel-down plane, you need to set the cap iron back a fair way to stop shavings getting caught under it. I ground a little off the end of the cap iron in order that I could adjust the blade properly.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[jimi43]

Hi Jim,

It's a Kunz blade which I bought from **** tools in Germany http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/product ... detail.jsf

Just remember that if you use a toothed blade in a bevel-down plane, you need to set the cap iron back a fair way to stop shavings getting caught under it. I ground a little off the end of the cap iron in order that I could adjust the blade properly.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Most helpful Paul...thanks mate...

Jim