Newcomer to Woodwork: Questions on projects and tools

[TheWizardofOdds]

The older ones were even more heavier - made from cast aluminium and with a very thick top.

I have two of them ( one I bought and the other from my father). One of them is used as a temporary base for my router table but that as being going on for about 10yrs
I fitted mine with Record Bench Holdfasts which makes them even more useful.

Rod

I don't suppose you would know the name of the model or year for the older one, Rod?

...The one in the foreground is such a beast but unfortunately I don't have any decent pictures of it than just that glimpse.

Also sadly...it is not in quite the same nick as the later B&D one....

Jim

I had a look on ebay Jim for the model that you can see clearly in your photo and I think it's a seventies number. There are a good few for sale around £35. That looks like it has seen some action over the years. I wonder if the new models will be still be around in forty years? Thanks.

 

[AndyT]

There's more good stuff on proper Workmates here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post716845.html#p716845 and in the thread it leads to.

 

[Harbo]

Don't think they have a model number but mine look like the one in Andy's photo.


Rod

 

[Jelly]

In order to avoid the ridiculous maths of compound angles, the first housing in the body was used as a template, marking out the cuts for both the top (obvious) and bottom of all the legs (each leg was installed upside down, and the compound cut needed so it hit the floor flush was done).

When I moved into my current house (and workshop), I made some trestles, there's a very complete description here...

The trick above is a good one, combined with thinking about of the marking out for the housing joints in terms of ratios of how much to move out/across for the amount you move down, can help make something seemingly really complex, easy and straightforward to do.

 

[TheWizardofOdds]

There's more good stuff on proper Workmates here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post716845.html#p716845 and in the thread it leads to.

That is a world away from the modern version. I don't think I'd need a bench if I had that. Very good. Unlikely I'd get a hold of one but you never know.

In order to avoid the ridiculous maths of compound angles, the first housing in the body was used as a template, marking out the cuts for both the top (obvious) and bottom of all the legs (each leg was installed upside down, and the compound cut needed so it hit the floor flush was done).

When I moved into my current house (and workshop), I made some trestles, there's a very complete description here...

The trick above is a good one, combined with thinking about of the marking out for the housing joints in terms of ratios of how much to move out/across for the amount you move down, can help make something seemingly really complex, easy and straightforward to do.

They look very nice indeed. I like the way you're setting up your workshop, and it's good to see a pic of the tools you used to make your projects too.

 

[Vann]

A starter kit could include;

9. Brace and set of bits (Incl. Countersink)

My list very similar to Gazpal.

brace & bit

Not a criticism, just an observation, I find it interesting that you both include a brace and bits, but neither of you include an eggbeater drill (and bits).

I was "issued" a brace and some bits when I started my apprenticeship in 1973. I have never used it in anger (only worked at my trade for 9 years including apprenticeship). It's only now that I'm on a hand-tool binge that I'm experimenting with one (or two, or more.. ).

I never owned an eggbeater drill either, until recently. I found them too difficult to use back then. Now I have one with a countersink bit permanently in the chuck, and another with a 3mm bit.

Mind you, we were equipped with pneumatic pistol drills (Desouter), so braces and eggbeaters were almost unnecessary.

Cheers, Vann

 

[Jacob]

....Not a criticism, just an observation, I find it interesting that you both include a brace and bits, but neither of you include an eggbeater drill (and bits)......

I always thought they were engineer's drills, both in name and trade. In fact I have never used one - the brace would drill holes, but anyway the Black & Decker was cheap and well established back then.

 

[Jelly]

....Not a criticism, just an observation, I find it interesting that you both include a brace and bits, but neither of you include an eggbeater drill (and bits)......

I always thought they were engineer's drills, both in name and trade. In fact I have never used one - the brace would drill holes, but anyway the Black & Decker was cheap and well established back then.

Indeed, the only use I've found for eggbeater drills is when you need to drill a small diameter hole, at a relatively slow speed in a awkward place... It's easier to put too much pressure on a bit and brace with a small bit, not to mention hard to find one that will chuck small diameter bits or decent bits adapted for quick-change chucks that will happily hold in a 2-jaw chuck.

If you don't need the low speed, then a powered drill is ultimately the way forwards.

They look very nice indeed. I like the way you're setting up your workshop, and it's good to see a pic of the tools you used to make your projects too.

Thanks, they're a bit rough and ready, but will happily support a substantive weight... When I get round to it, I'll take the legs off to finally put the angled shoulders on them and replace the nailed on ply crossbars with something a bit more elegant.

The workshop setup is an exercise in basic ergonomics, I'm awful for making a mess so I had to make it easier to actually put things away than to just let them pile up on all available flat surfaces (which to some extent has happened anyway... I need to add something to hold my moulding planes and oddments). For all I balk at the Japanese buzzwords and lofty ideals, Kaizen and the 5 S's have definitely made a bit of an impression on me as concepts.

I was unsure of the utility of posting the picture of the tools I used, but I figured it would illustrate the relative simplicity of it all, and maybe help someone like yourself visualise what's possible with what.

 

[GazPal]

A starter kit could include;

9. Brace and set of bits (Incl. Countersink)

My list very similar to Gazpal.

brace & bit

Not a criticism, just an observation, I find it interesting that you both include a brace and bits, but neither of you include an eggbeater drill (and bits).

I was "issued" a brace and some bits when I started my apprenticeship in 1973. I have never used it in anger (only worked at my trade for 9 years including apprenticeship). It's only now that I'm on a hand-tool binge that I'm experimenting with one (or two, or more.. ).

I never owned an eggbeater drill either, until recently. I found them too difficult to use back then. Now I have one with a countersink bit permanently in the chuck, and another with a 3mm bit.

Mind you, we were equipped with pneumatic pistol drills (Desouter), so braces and eggbeaters were almost unnecessary.

Cheers, Vann

I only began my apprenticeship a little earlier than you, but never really had any use for a hand drill/egg beater drill - in spite of owning one - if working on site. My brace and bits were virtually used daily and especially so if roped into site work (Primarily when door hanging (Lock and letterbox fitting), installing staircases (Drilling for coach bolts/screws, through mortise prep., etc.) and concrete shuttering work). The braces I had could/can handle square and round shanked bits, so came in especially useful where power was seldom available until after house/building electrics were connected. In fact is was/is often quicker to drill with a brace than have to set up extension leads, etc., to drill a few holes. I know I wore out a few gimlets during my time on sites. :lol:

My electric drill - back then - was metal bodied by a company named "Wolf" and had a nice "Jacob's" chuck fitted.

------------

Stanley #73 braces hold small diameter bits - down to approx 3mm dia - as they have a universal jaw set fitted. Back in the day they used to cost a small fortune when new, but were well worth the investment if you found yourself using both square and round shanked bits. Since the advent of cordless drills - the same braces seem to go for next to nothing on evilbay (Used), but buy a new brace of similar quality from elsewhere and you can expect to pay upward of £50.

 

[Jacob]

I also had a Yankee SD with several sizes of straight fluted drill bits which got used a lot and worked very well. And 2 sizes of bradawl for small screws no6 or smaller.

 

[GazPal]

I also had a Yankee SD with several sizes of straight fluted drill bits which got used a lot and worked very well. And 2 sizes of bradawl for small screws no6 or smaller.

I think Yankee SD's were all the rage and most of us owned at least one Jacob. I had a couple in different lengths and they were/are a great piece of kit with lots of torque when needed and rightly capable of drilling pilot holes and even countersinking if you adapted a bit to fit. Spiralux made another good - but basic - ratchet screwdriver.

 

[AndyT]

Although I am an outright hand tool enthusiast who has more braces and hand drills than many more normal people, as advice to someone starting out, I'd say that a decent cordless combination drill/driver should be one of your first purchases. It will cover almost all of your requirements and is the sensible match for the sort of drill bits and screws that you can easily buy.

Just don't expect it still to be working in 50 years time!

 

[GazPal]

Although I am an outright hand tool enthusiast who has more braces and hand drills than many more normal people, as advice to someone starting out, I'd say that a decent cordless combination drill/driver should be one of your first purchases. It will cover almost all of your requirements and is the sensible match for the sort of drill bits and screws that you can easily buy.

Just don't expect it still to be working in 50 years time!

I agree, but unfortunately most wear out within a couple or three years.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I had a snail countersink for a 131 yankee - once I polished the inside it was FAST. One of the most useful things I found for a brace was a large screwdriver bit - brilliant for longtime stuck screws.

 

[Muswell]

I had a snail countersink for a 131 yankee - once I polished the inside it was FAST. One of the most useful things I found for a brace was a large screwdriver bit - brilliant for longtime stuck screws.

I second that for the screwdriver, my only regret is that I haven't got a bit for pozidrive screws. The other thing I like to use the brace for is large auger bits because there is more control.

 

[Muswell]

My first job would be (and was many years ago) to make a sturdy bench out of sawn stock timber. This gives lots of practice at square cross-cutting with a hard-point saw and then planing of the top surface. Don't use thin timbers but big beefy chunks that are bolted together so the whole thing can be easily dismantled when you move. A heavy work bench will give you much more control when doing finer jobs later on than the silly flimsy things sold in most shops that move when you tighten the vice or make a joint with a chisel (most DIY plans you'll find are like this too, and much more elaborate than you need). So use the motto "Thick is bright, thin is dim".

My first, bought, bench was fairly flimsy but I learned what I wanted from it and the the one I built now suits the way I work. It is very simple, has removable panels, the top and legs are 4" maple, and it knocks-down with wedged joints. What I was really impressed by was how much better the massive top was for chiselling because there was no bounce. It also doubles up as an air raid shelter if things get bad.

 

[AndyT]

I had a snail countersink for a 131 yankee - once I polished the inside it was FAST. One of the most useful things I found for a brace was a large screwdriver bit - brilliant for longtime stuck screws.

I second that for the screwdriver, my only regret is that I haven't got a bit for pozidrive screws. The other thing I like to use the brace for is large auger bits because there is more control.

In my experience, plenty of pozidrive bits work just fine in a brace - their hexagonal shank is gripped well in an old style two-jaw chuck or even better in a more modern universal chuck. To get enough length you can use a magnetic bit holder, or just choose one of the longer design bits.

 

[Muswell]

Thanks Andy T. I've just tried a bit holder and it's perfect ....my brain cells must be dying quicker than I thought.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I went the other way around - I put a no2 pozi yankee bit in a battery drill. All four "wings" broke off as if they were glass. The steel was obviously harder.

 

[TheWizardofOdds]

Although I am an outright hand tool enthusiast who has more braces and hand drills than many more normal people, as advice to someone starting out, I'd say that a decent cordless combination drill/driver should be one of your first purchases. It will cover almost all of your requirements and is the sensible match for the sort of drill bits and screws that you can easily buy.

Just don't expect it still to be working in 50 years time!

I will be getting a drill/driver, I want to use hand tools mostly but I think a little help is OK. I see you can spend silly money on these too, I'll probably go for a middle of the road number, if I get a few years out of it then so be it.

...My first, bought, bench was fairly flimsy but I learned what I wanted from it and the the one I built now suits the way I work. It is very simple, has removable panels, the top and legs are 4" maple, and it knocks-down with wedged joints. What I was really impressed by was how much better the massive top was for chiselling because there was no bounce. It also doubles up as an air raid shelter if things get bad.

I think it's likely I will purchase a cheap Workmate just to get me started and then I can tackle bigger projects like making my own bench too.

I think I'm going to go for a few more books and get started on some small projects.

Question time: Is it best to get a Try-square or a Combination Square? ...Or both? And what is this carry on with checking if they are correctly fitted/made to measure square? Most of my purchases will be online so it's not something I can check. Even if I knew how.

When I buy the likes of Hammers/Mallets/Squares/Knives can these items be bought from the likes of B&Q, Wickes etc. or is it best to buy from Axminster and other reputable sites?

Where in your opinion is best to buy tools from? I don't mean boot sales or ebay or anything like that yet, I don't have the knowledge to buy safely from these places so must stick to online, DIY stores.

Does anyone have any sites that they know of with good projects for the beginner using mostly hand tools?

I've had a good look around myself, many projects seem to lead on to sites that require you to part with $50 or whatever first. Or require you to have more machinery than Rolls Royce.

Lastly, :roll: What other good UK sites for woodworking would people recommend? There does appear to be some good American ones but I'd prefer British sites. This can be sites for projects, tools, general interest.

Thanks.