Newbie questions.....

[Jameshow]

I thought this would be an ideal place for those dumb or not so dump questions.

I have a few to kick off with.

How do you stop plane tear out?
I have been planing pine and get some tear our. My planes are sharp and sometimes I get tear out often where the grain rises or where the grain is softer in-between growth rings.

Do you glue draw floors in? I've just been mailing them in to a recess?

Cheers James

 

[Noggsy]

Re the tear out...make sure your plane iron is sharp and, where possible, check the grain alignment. Ideally, you want it to be rising in the same direction that you’re planing. So, if you’re getting tearout, try reversing the wood and see if there is a significant difference. But getting your iron properly sharp will probably make a huge difference.

Now, can anyone recommend a good sharpening technique? <gets popcorn>

I didn’t understand your second question, so I can’t answer it.

 

[Jameshow]

I've been making a basic set of chest of drawers really to practice through dovetail and blind dovetails. I have set the drawer bottoms in recesses rather than slid in grooves from the back.
The dreamers rest on rails so I'm not to worried about weight on the drawer bottoms....

Another question if I may....

How do you cut a panel with only hand tools...

One of Paul sellars projects is s tool box with inset panel and I wonder how you do it without reverting to a router.
My initial thoughts were to rebate plane down say about 3/8 and 1/2" wide and then plane down to the level of the rebate with a normal plane....???

Cheers James

 

[Jacob]

.How do you stop plane tear out?
I have been planing pine and get some tear our. My planes are sharp and sometimes I get tear out often where the grain rises or where the grain is softer in-between growth rings.

Difficult with knotty pine. The main thing is sharpness of course, but also having a strong camber. Then if tearing out you do a shallower and narrower cut. Basically you can't plane the face of a board with a straight edged non cambered blade. Sounds improbable but one of the most effective ways of improving your planing is to squiggle candle wax on the bottom. Just a qucik squiggle like writing a signature

Do you glue draw floors in? I've just been mailing them in to a recess?

Cheers James

Mailing - as in letterbox?
Drawer bottoms - all sorts of possibilities.
Crudest, simplest but effective is to nail them on, not in, so the bottom board is the bottom of the drawer - full width/length of the drawer, nailed through into the sides

 

[Jacob]

Difficult with knotty pine. The main thing is sharpness of course, but also having a strong camber. Then if tearing out you do a shallower and narrower cut. Basically you can't plane the face of a board with a straight edged non cambered blade. Sounds improbable but one of the most effective ways of improving your planing is to squiggle candle wax on the bottom. Just a qucik squiggle like writing a signatureDrawer bottoms - all sorts of possibilities.
Crudest, simplest but effective is to nail them on, not in, so the bottom board is the bottom of the drawer - full width/length of the drawer, nailed through into the sides

Drawer bottoms - google "drawer slips"

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It would help our understanding if people didn't refer to drawers as draws.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the cap iron yet:
https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/cap-irons-tear-out-video/

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Hang on a mo ...

 

[Jacob]

It would help our understanding if people didn't refer to drawers as draws.

Don't get your drawers in a twist!

 

[Jacob]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the cap iron yet:
https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/cap-irons-tear-out-video/

They will, they will!
And polishing, flattening, lapping, micro adjusting mouth, buying new expensive blades, primary secondary tertiary bevels, grit sizes, diamonds, stropping, jewellers rouge etc etc. Then they'll suggest buying an expensive plane "usable straight out of the box" but not tell you that this is only good for about 20 minutes of work.
Luckily you don't have to take any notice at all!
PS I just watched the Richard Arnold vid - he's good. But you do need a camber if the workpiece is wider than the plane, as you can't take a full width shaving. Pleased to see he doesn't burble on about mouth adjustment as this is a popular myth. The frog needs to be dead in line with the mouth opening so the blade gets the maximum support where it most needs it - just behind the edge.

 

[Ttrees]

Never heard of that.... 'can't take full width shavings on a wide panel' myth before.

I also suggest reading or watching David W (Weaver) on youtube, or maybe some threads from Derek Cohen for more clarity on the use of the close set cap iron.
Not that many folks will advocate the use of the cap iron, as it is a touchy subject for some who have never seen someone utilise a double iron plane to its potential.
You might get a hint of that with anyone who suggests scraping flat surfaces after planing.

No tight mouths!!!!!!!!!, hone the cap iron to 50 degrees thereabouts,
a 1/32" camber for a jack plane and about half that camber again for a smoother
If you need it!
A 1/64" camber will be an... unnoticeable to the eye until paired with the cap iron camber, or feathered edge of you like. ...
but it must be there and properly even.
That camber measurement is from the cap iron to the centre of the iron, at the latter profile, if you can set it to 1/64" then you could set it closer if you wanted, but you won't need to do that , I was giving a starting point.

Obviously if you happened to knock the corners off the iron, this will make it impossible for the cap iron not to overshoot the corners,
Thus completely hindering the 'infulence' of the cap iron.

Sharp is not that important for the close set cap iron to work...
i.e will still work with an iron needing a lick in a stone.
Some candle wax will speed things up also, never far from the bench.

Tom

 

[Jacob]

Never heard of that.... 'can't take full width shavings on a wide panel' myth before.
....

Well you can but you get tracks. It also can be difficult as the wider you go the shallower the cut and the less material you can take off.
If you look at many of the newbie threads this is often their main problem - the assumption that planing a surface properly means getting a full width shaving.
Basically it's a compromise between a scrub plane (narrow, deep, lot of material off fast and easily) to a fine camber (wide , shallow, very fine shavings slowly and carefully).
Much trad hand made stuff shows the planing scoops and ridges, unless it has been finished off with scraping and sanding.

 

[Ttrees]

I have never got plane tracks concerning a smoother setting, and full width shavings are achievable which don't have to be that thin really.
One can take a good thickness shaving with a 1/32" setting, and the benefit of the camber is still evident with the shaving also, as in
will take a narrow shaving on a very light cut, but take full width shavings with a heavy cut.

Tom

 

[Phil Pascoe]

 

[pe2dave]

How do you stop plane tear out?
I have been planing pine and get some tear our. My planes are sharp and sometimes I get tear out often where the grain rises or where the grain is softer in-between growth rings.

(perhaps with scrap), look at the rising / falling away grain direction before you start. Yes, it may change over the length of the piece, deal with it. Listen to the plane? With the grain it's a sweet sound on a sharp plane. Against, it sort of cries. Much nicer than radio 1.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Basically you can't plane the face of a board with a straight edged non cambered blade.

Really!

 

[RobinBHM]

how to prevent tear out.....belt sander

 

[kevinlightfoot]

Jacob is talking about traditional western style planes,the Japanese have specialised planes for the contests shown,I agree with Jacob a camber on a smoother eliminates the track lines to a great extent and means less sanding.A lot of faffing about is lauded about planing ,a light cut with a sharp blade solves all but the most difficult cases in most instances,practise is the answer.

 

[pe2dave]

Just turn up (round) the corners of the blade. No track lines.

 

[Jacob]

Just turn up (round) the corners of the blade. No track lines.

rounded corner track lines.