newbie needs to understand....

[goldspanner]

understandable viewpoint, but apart from anything else, they probably understand the different people like to sharpen different ways (angle, secondary bevels etc.), and so it makes more sense to leave it rough.
Also they can presumably keep the cost down for the consumer if they don't have to add an extra sharpening stage to the production process.

 

[Trafalgar]

Even if a new tool were shipped with a perfect edge it likely would need a touchup within 45 minutes of reasonably vigorous use. So, manufacturers typically don't bother and what a few of them call 'ready to use out of the box' is basically a joke on the buyer.

You have to learn to grind and hone. No way around it.

 

[Jacob]

....
I need to learn sharpening skills before I can learn wood skills. ....

Yep you got it. Sharpening IS a wood skill.
If they arrived sharp they'd be blunt after a few hours of use (more with a saw, less with a plane or chisel).

Machine tools different (by definition).

 

[mouppe]

If you bought a guitar would you expect it to be tuned? Even if it was, it wouldn't be much good after an hour if you didn't know how to tune it.

It's sort of the same thing with chisels and plane blades. Also, woodworkers have their own personal preferences as to secondary bevel angles, methods of honing etc., that a factory-sharpened blade would complicate.

 

[n0legs]

I need to learn sharpening skills before I can learn wood skills.

Yup !!
When I was a lad doing my apprenticeship all I did for the first 2 months was clean and care for the craftsman's tools.
I got a little peeeed off with it, so I asked "When do I get to do more than just clean tools ?"
Jackhammer Lewis says to me "When you've bleep bleep learned how to look after them bleep bleep properly I'll teach you how to use them"
Here endeth the lesson :wink: :lol:
The good old days

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

It is very rare on this forum for anyone to ask about sharpening and to get so much agreement. Basically you can't use hand tools unless you can sharpen. Whether you do it freehand, with a honing guide or even with a machine like a worksharp or tormek is another question, but the tools need to be sharpened regularly, often more than once in a session. My advise would be to get a honing guide and some oil stones (diamond plates if you want to spend a little more, or waterstones if you can be bothered with the associated faf) and a leather strop. Using the guide will get you to understand what sharp is, but after some time try freehand which proves a lot quicker and less fiddly.
Watch some youtube videos and practice. I wouldn't bother asking too many questions on this forum as sharpening threads become too esoteric for the beginner, just mess about till you've got a blade that will slice through end grain and all those "unfinished tools" will be sharp and usable. Soon you will become good with your method and you can come on here and tell everyone who does it slightly differently that they're wrong.
Paddy

 

[rafezetter]

okay, i see the need to be able to resharpen, obviously, but if I buy a hacksaw blade, should I expect it not to cut? Does Stanley supply blunt blades for their knives?
i am a TOTAL beginner, I am on my own with no clubs or night classes within a couple thousand miles.
i have brand new tools that are totally useless to me, and without Youtube, i wouldnt even know why.
If the blade was set to the normal working limits, I could get it back to that once it stopped cutting.

I have to chime in here, I can hear where you are coming from BUT - I've only ever had a couple of woodwork classes.... at school when I was about 10 (35 years ago)! All I've learned so far regarding woodworking techniques; which has allowed me to hone chisels and planes to razor sharp, make some items that people have been happy to pay money for and some others for my own use including a few homemade tools, has all come from online knowledge and home practice - not a single book or personal lesson / course involved.

If you are posting here, you are online, and therefore have access to the largest library of woodworking knowledge on earth, and if you struggle with something in particular there are any number of forums to join to question and ask for advice. Youtubes too for simple hands on experience you can easily practice at home.

What Andy T and others said is correct - certain woodworking items are supplied to allow a user to set them up for their own personal preference, and things like adding a good bandsaw blade would only add to the cost, PLUS you don't know WHAT sort of blade; there is more than 1 type so a retailer / manufacturer according to your sense of "how it should be" would be required to supply at least 4 different good blades; which 7/10 buyers won't even need while adding significantly to the cost of the machine.

I'm sorry to say but if your attitude is "I need someone to show me in person how to do X" you won't get very far in woodwork. It's also worth bearing in mind that unless you are buying high quality tools there's a high chance some of them will require more than a little attention just to get them to work at all - so be prepared for that - as with anything in life good performance requires attention and dedication.

Welcome to woodwork your (possibly lifetime) journey starts here!

Edit: good call on the freebie hol Jimi! and I'm sure Alfie would be fine without you for a few days.

 

[yetloh]

What Rafezetter says is of course true. But it does ignore the basic truth that everyday planes (as opposed to premium versions), which are such a vital part of a woodworker's kit, are all too often supplied in a state where, even with a sharp blade, they will barely work at all. This is as true now as it was back in the 1960's when my sister bought me a Stanley No 4. I tried very hard but simply could not get it to work; I thought it must be me and bought a Surform which would at least remove wood. In this context, forget all the talk about personal preferences: it is as unforgiveable now as it was then and here the OP has a very valid point.

Jim

 

[sunnybob]

okay, i see the need to be able to resharpen, obviously, but if I buy a hacksaw blade, should I expect it not to cut? Does Stanley supply blunt blades for their knives?
i am a TOTAL beginner, I am on my own with no clubs or night classes within a couple thousand miles.
i have brand new tools that are totally useless to me, and without Youtube, i wouldnt even know why.
If the blade was set to the normal working limits, I could get it back to that once it stopped cutting.

I have to chime in here, I can hear where you are coming from BUT - I've only ever had a couple of woodwork classes.... at school when I was about 10 (35 years ago)! All I've learned so far regarding woodworking techniques; which has allowed me to hone chisels and planes to razor sharp, make some items that people have been happy to pay money for and some others for my own use including a few homemade tools, has all come from online knowledge and home practice - not a single book or personal lesson / course involved.

If you are posting here, you are online, and therefore have access to the largest library of woodworking knowledge on earth, and if you struggle with something in particular there are any number of forums to join to question and ask for advice. Youtubes too for simple hands on experience you can easily practice at home.

What Andy T and others said is correct - certain woodworking items are supplied to allow a user to set them up for their own personal preference, and things like adding a good bandsaw blade would only add to the cost, PLUS you don't know WHAT sort of blade; there is more than 1 type so a retailer / manufacturer according to your sense of "how it should be" would be required to supply at least 4 different good blades; which 7/10 buyers won't even need while adding significantly to the cost of the machine.

I'm sorry to say but if your attitude is "I need someone to show me in person how to do X" you won't get very far in woodwork. It's also worth bearing in mind that unless you are buying high quality tools there's a high chance some of them will require more than a little attention just to get them to work at all - so be prepared for that - as with anything in life good performance requires attention and dedication.

Welcome to woodwork your (possibly lifetime) journey starts here!

Edit: good call on the freebie hol Jimi! and I'm sure Alfie would be fine without you for a few days.

No, you've kind of mistaken what I was complaining about. Is isn't that I'm bemoaning no one to show me. Its that I NEED someone to show me. It doesn't come sharp enough to work properly in the first place.
I have a lifetime of mechanical and electrical experience, including an apprenticeship back in the 60's. I know how to look after tools and I have the tools and the knowledge to copy any shape in metal. But I haven't touched wood cutting tools since my last woodwork class at school in 1963. If I bought a sharp chisel, when it went blunt I could easily restore the original shape. But if it doesn't come sharp, and it has no instructions, and I havent seen a properly sharpened chisel to compare, how is a complete beginner like myself to know how to make it work properly?

Without a visit to you tube, I would never have known what to do.
I see someone has finally seen my point (lol) in the post below yours.
I am learning fast, soaking up info every day, but those blunt chisels made me question if I could make anything with wood. That was my moan in the first posting.

 

[matthewwh]

Sadly this story is all too common.

We get a lot of old guys in the shop who make comments like "ooh that's a good one", "I didn't know they still made them like this" and "I don't have enough time left to mess around with cheap tools". The same old boys who, if you ask them for one piece of advice, will tell you to "buy the best tools you can afford".

Then we get the students, who under the direction of their tutors (who hate wasting good teaching time trying to get rubbish tools to work) have been dispatched into our care.

The ones we rarely see are the strugglers, who assume that their skills are not worthy of good tools and buy the cheapest they can find. Or watch a bit of Norm and then go down the power tool heavy route assuming that they need to set up to manufacture tables in order to make just one.

The truth is that you don't need very many hand tools to begin producing simple good quality projects, but when you buy a tool, in most cases, it should see you out. The big investment isn't the money, it is the time you spend getting to know it, understanding how to use it. Take your hands for example - the most complex and amazing tools you will ever own. If you could go back and choose a surgeon's hands for £1000 each, or a **** shovellers hands for £100, and live with that decision for the rest of your life - which would you choose?

You do need to learn how to sharpen, in the same way as you need to understand how to refuel your car, but it isn't difficult and there are plenty of tools available that have been set up properly to begin with and come with the support of a reputable retailer who will help you to understand them and get the best from them.

We are not alone, Pete or Gary at wood workers workshop, Mike and Alex at CHT or Lee at Yandles will also see you right. The important thing is that all of us are looking at the long game - a customer for 30 to 50 years. It's not an easy proposition to get across when everyone is used to 'grab your money and run' merchants, but it's in our interests to help you succeed and develop a deep and rewarding passion for the craft.

 

[yetloh]

Well said, Matthew.

Jim