New workshop for 2020

[DBT85]

I struck lucky with the roofing timbers. It was a single lorry order from a timber yard in Birmingham the day before they closed for covid. I had ordered all C16 graded, but they supplied C24 at the same money. Every length is straight, no crowning at all, and no twist. I used string between wall plate and ridge in case there was an unseen bow in a rafter, and didn’t want to set the purlin to a bent piece of wood. The rafters just touch all three edges when rested on them .

The doorway bottoms are yet to be cut away. There are two pieces of 4x2 at present which will be removed in all three doorways, I’ll cut them out when I’ve put the roof on and stopped banging things around. At least there is no chance of anything becoming mis-aligned this way.

The step in will end up being about a brick and three quarters outside and one brick inside by the time the threshold is fitted. I’m putting a custom made stable door on the front with a large fixed window in the top half.

May I ask which merchant? I'm only down in Worcester so Davies Timber up there might well be my source when the time comes.

That makes sense now about the door. I saw it with the bricks and the timber and I thought "that's going to be a pain to step over!"

 

[Sheptonphil]

I place the order through my local independent store. Whilst he carries good stock of ‘normal’ timber stock, he only stocks up to 4.8m lengths, I needed 5.2 metre rafters plus the heavy stock for ridges etc. He managed to get all the roofing timbers, inc ridge and purlins, plus another twenty lengths of 4x2 and eighteen sheets of OSB from his Birmingham wholesale wood yard the day before they closed.

 

[MikeG.]

..........The step in will end up being about a brick and three quarters outside and one brick inside by the time the threshold is fitted..........

I'd strongly recommend that you design that away. That's just a trip hazard. You really don't want to step over something at a threshold, and particularly in a workshop where you might be carrying stuff, or even trying to manouevre heavy machinery in or large pieces of furniture out. I can't see anything you gain by having such a step.

 

[Sheptonphil]

No problem Mike, didn't see it that way. Can certainly be designed out of the equation.

I can make threshold the only step over, so in to workshop, at floor level

 

[Sheptonphil]

No more rafters today, as I’ve finished the gable end, I thought I’d be better off finishing the house side rather than fighting in amongst narrow rafter space.

Built the stub wall at the end by the ante room so it carries the ends of the first three rafters house side. I think I’m going to use slates on this bit instead of cladding.

After fixing the first rafter I set the position for the continuous dry soaker. I’d bought one with the flashing and lip built in. A bit more of a pain to mark out and setup but means that I won’t have to do separate flashing after the soaker is fixed when the battens are on the roof. I figured it was easier to put the work in now so it was ready to put in and seal after battening but before slating.

Both flashing channels have been cut in the house wall and the soaker dry fitted to make sure everything will be aligned when the battening is on, then final fix on the next four rafters.

Think I can get the rest done before the weekend, and clear the floorboards off the ceiling joists before the rains come again on Monday.

Scaffold tower arrives Monday to make the slating a bit easier rather than working off a ladder.

 

[Sheptonphil]

A productive couple of days.

All rafters now cut and fixed front and back.

Membrane has been tacked on in case the rains come Monday, I thought it would be easier to fix it on when I can walk on the joists and boards rather than try and fight it balancing on roofing battens whilst working my way up. It also means I don’t have to cover the floorboards which are being left out the way on the ceiling joists for now, or all the tools on the temporary work bench. The inside to a fair degree is now water tight.

Hopefully tomorrow I’ll cut the rafter tails and add the facia, I can then install the eaves tray, finish off the last section of membrane nearest eaves and fix eaves ventilation strip.

I think the heavy work is now done, there’s a lot of cladding to do, but each board shouldn’t be too bad.

Bit of a tidy up due, before the next phase.

 

[Sheptonphil]

A good day today.

The scaffold tower arrived midday, but by then the rafters were measured with a spare piece of fascia and a bit of guttering to see how long to leave them to allow the gutter to discharge into the house down pipe.

A 45mm rafter over hang from wall plate plus the fascia board makes the down pipe in line with the existing house one, making for an easy job to join in, the front roof will be a little more involved.

Rafters were trimmed off plumb, and the fascia board fitted to the garden side eaves. The ventilation strip was attached to the fascia top, eaves trays and the chunky corrugated tray tacked on. Despite a force eight blowing across the garden all afternoon, I managed to fight the last piece of membrane on the the lawn and cut it to rough size before round two on the roof, filling the lower section to the eaves.

All looked good so far.

I made an enormous tri square just to check the run of the roof and wall plate from the house wall. All the time earlier in the build checking and double checking for square has paid dividends. I can work off the wall plates which are square to the house and gable end.

Setting the battens for the first two rows of slates was a bit trial and error, I screwed them temporarily in a couple of places to test the layout. I knew the gauge afterwards would be 245mm for a 110mm head-lap.

Finally figured it out, nailed the first two battens, made spacers to set the rest and started in earnest.

After the first ten rows I had a nasty thought, buttocks, I wasn’t meant to nail batten to the gable end rafter, the dry verge profile slides under the batten ends and nail through both. I shall have to cut through those nails tomorrow. Lesson learned! Dry verge profile was scheduled for delivery last Thursday, but not arrived yet.

More battening tomorrow, finishing the back and make a start on the front.

 

[MikeG.]

You might well be able to pry those nails up rather than cutting them. Get your claw hammer under the batten carefully and prise. This is a common mistake, and I've done it myself many times. I've never yet had to cut a nail.

 

[Sheptonphil]

Thanks again Mike, will definitely give that a shot first. I’ve got a thin pry bar, will tuck it in my belt before I go up tomorrow.

Just had another thought, although the verge profile isn’t here yet, I do have the soaker flashing, so could get that installed over the battens before moving the scaffold to the rear.

The plan in the absence of verge tomorrow, is finish batten and soaker at rear, move scaffold tower to front, do batten and soaker and by then verge trim should be here to do slating at front, fit guttering, then move tower back to rear to do rear slates, ridge tiles and gutter.

 

[MikeG.]

It can be useful to have a scrap of ply or an off-cut of batten up there with you to cushion the membrane from the hammer (or pry bar). You might have to pry up the batten a little from the next rafter along, too.

 

[Sheptonphil]

Well, Mike, it took the hammer and pry bar to ease the battens up. Half brought the nail out, the other six drew the nail through the batten, they were ring shank nails fired from the Paslode. I used the pry bar to ease the batten to one side and remove the nail. Shan’t make that mistake again!

Rest of battening at rear finished and the soaker sealed in to the wall chase. I filled the chase with Geocel roofers seal and sprung the built in lip in the channel. The soaker is a clever design, springing in to the chase due to its moulded shape which means you have to squeeze the profile to install it and it opens again when slotted in. I’ll leave it a couple of days and run a bead of sealer on the outside edge.

Most of the front rafters cut and fascia fitted. Just the stub wall to do tomorrow. Eaves ventilation system fixed in and the last piece of membrane laid on.

Twenty one rows of battens fixed in place, no nails in the end rafters where dry verge is going this time ( dry verge didn’t turn up today either ).

I’ve started to load slates on to the roof front and back. A single pack of fifteen is about all I can carry up at once, so about forty trips to get them there.

Tomorrow, final three rafters and fascia, ventilation and membrane, then front soaker. Probably spend the rest of the day loading the roof.

 

[DBT85]

Ahh its looking excellent and I'm getting jealous!

 

[MikeG.]

Great stuff Phil.

I'm not sure how much roofing you've done, but if you're new to it have a good think about how you are going to do the ridge. Lack of space and access are the big issues......you need quite a lot of stuff up there with you, and you need somewhere for your feet. You've also got to be able to get off the roof afterwards! If you're experienced........sorry for the egg sucking lesson, granny. :lol:

 

[Sheptonphil]

Great stuff Phil.

I'm not sure how much roofing you've done, but if you're new to it have a good think about how you are going to do the ridge. Lack of space and access are the big issues......you need quite a lot of stuff up there with you, and you need somewhere for your feet. You've also got to be able to get off the roof afterwards! If you're experienced........sorry for the egg sucking lesson, granny. :lol:

Hi Mike, thanks, means a lot coming from you.

The only roofing I’ve done before was box section steel sheeting on a 8’x8’ and a few felt roofs, nothing over 8’x6’!

This my first shot at ‘proper’ roofing and tiling of any sort, and was intended to be done by a roofing mate. Instead he tells me which YouTube to watch (and which to ignore) and I pass the proposed materials list to him before ordering. As you know, it was meant to be a trussed roof, again installed with help, not me doing my first cut roof on my own, and battened and slated by a roofer and his mate not me alone. I’m not afraid of hard work or learning new skills it just takes me a bit longer to do properly as I want this workshop to be a quality build and maintenance free for many years, and this type of build is new to me.

I think I can slate two thirds verge side of it before trapping myself in. I’ve bought some ladder hooks to go over the ridge, so was thinking I could use a hooked ladder to place on slates already laid to finish the last third by the house each side, then use it to do the dry ridge. I’ve got carpet if needed to lay on slates before laying ladder on it. At least the scaffold tower means I can get materials to eaves height without too much trouble, just a lot of effort.

At 22.5 degrees it’s not too bad a pitch to climb all over, but my roof climbing days were far behind me I thought, I’m not built like a mountain goat. This is definitely a learn as I go build.

 

[MikeG.]

Don't, whatever you do, place a ladder on slates. The risk of breakage is high, and the only way to repair without stripping all the slates in the triangle above the broken one, is with tingles.

My approach to ridges is this. You need access at the gable, be that ladder or, preferably, scaffolding. Slate one side of the roof right to the top, and on the other side, leave two courses off. You'll do these as you go. Start at the far end, furthest from the gable, and work your way back towards your ladder/ scaffolding. You need to balance a bucket of mortar, tools, crocks, ridge tiles, and slates up there, as well as having nails and your cut top row of slates. You're sitting on the ridge facing the side which has the missing courses of slate, and so all your work is to the side of you......and all your materials are in the way of getting on and off the roof, on your other side. It needs real organisation to make it work, and it's so much easier if you have someone who can hand you stuff. Getting on and off the roof past that lot with only one batten to walk on is something of a schlep.

 

[Sheptonphil]

Ahh its looking excellent and I'm getting jealous!

It’s getting quite exciting as it’s coming together.

I’ve plenty of experience in general DIY but this is a totally different proposition.

I have really surprised myself, the situation as is, means I’ve had to do it myself or wait months, maybe till next year to achieve this. I’ve done jobs I never had a clue about and some I never thought I’d even attempt let alone accomplish alone.

How is your planning progressing?

 

[Sheptonphil]

Don't, whatever you do, place a ladder on slates. The risk of breakage is high, and the only way to repair without stripping all the slates in the triangle above the broken one, is with tingles.

My approach to ridges is this. You need access at the gable, be that ladder or, preferably, scaffolding. Slate one side of the roof right to the top, and on the other side, leave two courses off. You'll do these as you go. Start at the far end, furthest from the gable, and work your way back towards your ladder/ scaffolding. You need to balance a bucket of mortar, tools, crocks, ridge tiles, and slates up there, as well as having nails and your cut top row of slates. You're sitting on the ridge facing the side which has the missing courses of slate, and so all your work is to the side of you......and all your materials are in the way of getting on and off the roof, on your other side. It needs real organisation to make it work, and it's so much easier if you have someone who can hand you stuff. Getting on and off the roof past that lot with only one batten to walk on is something of a schlep.

And there is the rub, I haven’t got access to the gable end. I’ve bartered a weekend to clad gable end, and that was off ladders not scaffold, and I replace all fence panels with new ones as they’re falling apart.

I see your method, but that isn’t an option unfortunately.

The slates are Marley trutone, fibre cement jobbies. The ridge is Marley fibre cement ridge caps using Marley dry ridge system, no mortar, just screwed on with the vent roll below.

Gonna have to consult my roofer mate for inspiration, or wait for lockdown to end and get it done by him.

 

[DBT85]

Ahh its looking excellent and I'm getting jealous!

It’s getting quite exciting as it’s coming together.

I’ve plenty of experience in general DIY but this is a totally different proposition.

I have really surprised myself, the situation as is, means I’ve had to do it myself or wait months, maybe till next year to achieve this. I’ve done jobs I never had a clue about and some I never thought I’d even attempt let alone accomplish alone.

How is your planning progressing?

Yeah I'm in a similar boat, lots of DIY exp doing all sorts but never anything like this. Its a lot of work and while it looks great to have the rafters up and stuff its still a fair way to the end!

My planning is just pootling along. Sadly its not my only focus at the moment so I get a little done here and there. I'm drawing it up in Fusion as more of a challenge to learn the software and parametric design than any real need to do it, though I would really like to have a detailed plan before I start.

Right now all the brick/block and framing is done bar the studs that go in the gable above the top plate. Bricks, blocks, OSB, Rafters etc are all in there and it all scales properly so someone else could use it and choose a different size and it will just resize everything and pick a new pitch and tell them how many blocks, brick, studs, etc they would need.

Hopefully I can get the planning application sorted once I'm happy and then I'll have to wait for that to all start up again as I think a lot of it has shut down at the moment. I only want planning to go 1m from the boundary rather than 2m and to be honest I might not even bother. My only real concern is building it and someone coming along to inspect an disagreeing on where the boundary lies. Myself and my neighbour (who lived here before me and also put the fence in) agree that its the inside face of the fence, but that fence is also in the middle of a bush.

The site clearing hasn't even begun on the surface let alone below!

For the moment I live vicariously!

 

[Sheptonphil]

Today’s progress was awkward on the whole. I started working on the stub wall, it’s tucked in a tight space one metre wide and no way to setup the scaffold. This has meant all work on the three rafters and fascia, had to be done off a ladder. I’ve managed to set the rafter length so when the slates run up the roof they will finish with whole slates at gutter point. I may have to trim off 20mm, but didn’t want to have a little bit of slate at the edge. So final three rafters cut, fascia fitted along with the eaves vent kit. I’ve finished the membrane for the small gable and stub wall. No battening on this bit yet as management will have say as to whether the cladding is taken up to the verge and fascia or use slates instead. Of course each needs the battens in a different orientation, so I thought it prudent not to batten at all till a decision is made.

Then it was on to fitting the front soaker and flashing and sealing it into the chase. I’ll put the external sealing bead on front and back soaker flashing on Friday when the chase sealer has set. These looked a simple way of joining the roof to the house wall, but the margin for error is non existent. When slotted in channel on rafters there is no leeway for the building flashing lip. It’s spot on, or just plain wrong and isn’t going to fit. Not sure I’d use this one piece solution again, separate soaker and flashing is more forgiving. Fortunately, with my makeshift jig, the grinder chase was spot on. I wouldn’t have lived down a redundant 30mm deep channel in the wall in the wrong place.

That done I set about a pair of extra battens to fix the ridge capping to. A 600mm strip of membrane was fitted over the ridge, two battens each side and ridge is ready for slating. It’s the Marley duo ridge dry system, using a roll of vent cloth stuck to the slates, then screw through the fibre cement ridge tiles, no mortar, no leaks.

A good tidy up planned for tomorrow, then load the roof with slates ready for the arrival of the verge profile, now promised for Friday.

After Mikes reservations, I’m a little unsure how to proceed with laying the Fibre Cement Slates, but whatever happens, the slates have to end up on the roof and the roofing fairies are on lockdown at the moment so when guess it’s down to me to get them up there. Even if I have to give in and get a real proper roofer to lay them some time in the future, the cost will be lessened by me doing the donkey work.

Pics don’t seem much different, the visual is a little more subtle today, butthe day was none the less quite fruitful.

o

 

[MikeG.]

.......My only real concern is building it and someone coming along to inspect an disagreeing on where the boundary lies. Myself and my neighbour (who lived here before me and also put the fence in) agree that its the inside face of the fence, but that fence is also in the middle of a bush.......

Don't worry, they're not solicitors or surveyors. They will rely on you to tell them where the boundary is if it ever becomes an issue. My experience is that they really don't give a damn in rural settings......it's only when there is an adjacent property whose interests they have to look out for that the boundary ever becomes an issue unless you absolutely take the mickey.