New Workshop Choices

[Hickorystick]

Hello
My name is Hickorystick and I'm an a... woodworker !
I'm not in the trade but am a very keen woodworker and have made & sold quite a lot of general furniture items and done shopfitting as well as making the usual household things such as dressers, kitchen cabinets, bookshelf units etc.... all which gives me immense pleasure and satisfaction !
Anyway - for years now I have struggled by with make do facilities and hand held power tools (I'm sure a lot of you identify with this) but finally have moved to a new house where there is an outside garage and its going to be my new workshop... yeehah !
And - at last I will be able to have some proper woodworking machines.... exciting stuff !
So, I wanted to know if anyone had an opinion on all or some of the machines on my shortlist and could offer encouragement, a warning, or an alternative suggestion...
My choices are based on their capacity and quality, these are forever machines so I want to make sure I make the right decision.
Price wise they are all within a few hundred quid of each other.
The first 3 are the usual suspects, a tablesaw, a bandsaw & a planer/thicknesser.
The ones I have been researching are:
TABLESAW - Axminster AW12BSB2 or Jet JTS600
BANDSAW - Hammer N4400 or Axminster SWB4300B or Jet JWBS16X
PLANER/THICKNESSER - Axminster AW168PT or Jet JPT260
(yes, the Axminster website is the easiest to research !! )

I also really want a Sliding Mitre Saw and am looking at the Bosch or the Festool - the ones that don't have long sliding rails at the back so they can go next to a wall - but this will have to wait for another time.
So, sorry about the long winded intro but its my first time on here...
Anyone with any feedback on these machines - much appreciated.

 

[Wizard9999]

Hi Hickorystick

Last week I ordered a new bandsaw, the Record Power BS400. Not sure my inexpert opinion counts for much, but you may want to look at this thread...

record-power-bs400-bandsaw-review-t78828.html

As per the thread I know Random Orbital Bob spent a lot of time looking into this and included Hammer, Axy and Jet saws in his short list before going for the RP BS400.

On the table saw I think you will find a lot of Xcalibur fans on this forum, and ultimately it is what I lust after, if you have not looked at them see here...

http://www.woodfordtooling.com/catalog/ ... tegory/68/

Be interested to hear what you decide in the end.

Terry.

 

[Hickorystick]

Thanks Terry
Sounds like some good tips there.
Particularly interested in the Xcalibur Saw if it is that much recommended !
Can anyone rate it against the Ax or Jet ones I mentioned that I'm currently considering ?
Will check it out on the website link.

Oh, any thoughts on the Hammer N4400 as well ?
I once saw the model down from that (N 3800) and was impressed with the build quality and would like to research also the Record Power that you mention...
Cheers...

 

[Wizard9999]

Hickory stick

Genuinely surprised you have not had more replies!

In terms of people's views on the Xcalibur try reading this thread in the first instance...

excalibur-set-up-t82011.html

All the best,
Terry.

 

[siggy_7]

The table saws you list are very different beasts - the Jet is a compact 10" format style cabinet saw with a short stroke carriage, whereas the Axi is a much bigger traditional style saw with a 12" blade and an optional carriage with double the travel. For small work the Jet looks like a good saw, but if you want to rip timber more than 3" thick or cross-cut more than 2' wide then it's not the saw for you.

 

[RogerBoyle]

What Kind of Projects are you going to completing???
For instance are you going to be cutting MFC Boards ???
If so you may well be better off with a table saw that has a scribing blade option for splinter free cuts.
which in turn generally means a saw with a bigger footprint
Do you have the room for these bits of kit to work in after they are fitted ( My Son in Laws Grandfather made that mistake LOL)
The Hammer Bandsaw is very good as is the Record that was linked to earlier.

Would a track saw , Spindle moulder and Bandsaw suit your projects better or a Bandsaw, Planner thicknesser and a couple of routers serve you better

Or are you going for a "get as many tools as I can approach" :mrgreen: =D> :mrgreen:

Roger

 

[Hickorystick]

For small work the Jet looks like a good saw, but if you want to rip timber more than 3" thick or cross-cut more than 2' wide then it's not the saw for you.

Thanks for the advice Siggy. I do sometimes have a need to do some work with thicker stock so will probably take that particular model of Jet off my shopping list.

 

[Hickorystick]

Roger thanks for responding.
I don't work with sheet material too much and when I do I can rip it down with my circular saw and a fence/rail although having the option to add a sliding table to a saw in the future would be part of my considerations. The recommendations from Terry on the Axcalibur TS have got me thinking. I rang Roy at Woodford and am seriously interested now however its the usual balancing act on the finances
As far as space goes I have a space about 3 x 6.5 mt and my 3 floor mounted machines (TS, BS & P/T) will all be required to be mobile.
Glad you agree about the Hammer, I was very impressed when I saw one !

 

[RogerBoyle]

For a table saw I can recommend the Scheppach in this link

for-sale-scheppach-4010-table-saw-t84161.html

They really are a fantastic saw and extremely accurate
There used to be a wheel set for them but I don't know if its still made or not

Have you gave any thoughts on Dust extraction yet... For me its better to spend more in this department and less on the other bits of kit.

 

[Alexam]

Another vote for Record BS400. I have had this for a few months and it's a great machine.
Whatever you select, make sure that it is fully demonstrated before buying and check the guarantee. The Record guarantee is 5 years.

Alex

 

[shed9]

I've got a Hammer N4400 and can't fault it; accurate, powerful, easy to change blades and the ability to add further support or jigs if needed. My table saw and thicknesser planer are also Hammer (K3 winner and A3-31 respectively).

I mention this as I also looked at the Axi variants you mention yourself. I initially ended up ordering an Axi Mj12-1600 panel saw, Axi TH410 thicknesser and the Jet 60A planer but ended up cancelling the order as my delivery dates just kept changing with no end in sight. I was actually in the process of ordering an N4400 from Felder during this process and was put in touch with a Felder customer who was selling their Hammer shop tools in superb condition. I made an offer and collected the same week, no regrets.

I also looked at the Bosch axial glide and Festool Kapex and ended up with the Kapex which leads to the irony of the above info; The guy I bought my Hammer kit off was selling all his fixed heavy machinery to relieve himself of his shop overheads and to invest in a mobile Festool based shop working from his van. To be honest I thought his idea of going completely Festool 'portable' based was a little rash but chatted to him about his thought process, he showed me some of his Festool kit and described the benefits he was seeing.

Long story short, my own shop is predominantly Festool now and whilst I was one of the original naysayers on Festool, I'm now a complete convert(ish). The thicknesser planer and bandsaw are used regularly but the table saw less so these days and the tracksaw has taken over most of these tasks. I wouldn't be without the tablesaw but if I was in the same position knowing what I know now, I'm not 100% sure that I would have bought it.

My point to this reply is to advise to have a look at a tracksaw system and make sure that this isn't something that may be more suited to your needs comparative to a table saw. Doesn't have to be Festool although these days they are competitively priced against the competition. I can recommend the N4400 but to be honest if buying new, a BS400 will be well up to the task and leave a lot of change for other goodies. In regards to a planer thicknesser, I kind of wished I had gone my own original route of separates and regret this to some extent, I would seriously consider this path. As for a sliding mitre saw, the Kapex is superb however I know plenty of people who love the Bosch and to be honest I think you will be happy with either; the Bosch has a slightly higher capacity but the Kapex is a little more accurate in my opinion.

One thing you don't mention is dust extraction, you will need to factor this in given the sheer volume of chips and dust that equipment will generate.

Hope this helps.

 

[Hickorystick]

Hi Shed9 - lots of interesting points in your reply...

Bandsaw - I first saw the N4400 at a tool show last year and I liked everything about it and the quality seemed very high. It remains my number 1 choice at the moment although I'm going up to the Harrogate show in 4 weeks and will be checking out some of the other suggestions including the Record Power BS400 and will make my final decision then. I probably see the bandsaw as the most important machine in the shop so want to ensure it is right (thats not to say the others aren't of course).

Table Saw - interested in your comments that if you knew then what you know now you may not have bought one...
Obviously the track saw will take care of all your sheet material but for ripping lengths of timber do you think you can get away with the bandsaw and machine it with the P/T ?
This is the most difficult decision for me as far as machines go. I have had reccomendations (in this post) for the Xcalibur TS which seems a quality bit of kit which will handle seemingly anything I would need it for. However at circa 1500 notes could my money be better spent on a Axi TS which does get excellent reviews and get the Festool track system and still have change out of 1500.
I really want a table saw for the type of projects I do. Again, will be checking all options at the show.

Planer/Thicknesser - why do you wish you had separates ? Do you feel the quality or functionality of the combined machine is less than the separates ? For me, I can only go on my research and owners opinion but my overriding fact is I only have so much space and 2 machines would be not only much more expensive but take too much valuable space. The Axi or Jet remain my preferred choice at the moment. Having said that, if you are contemplating changing any of your Hammer kit then let me know... :wink:

SCMS - Space being limited the Bosch and the Festool are my considerations. Quality and accuracy - so both meet my needs !
General opinion between the 2 does seem to slightly favour the Festool and as far as overall bulk goes it seems to be a smaller machine

Extraction - I have a SIP bag system at the moment but I think I will upgrade when I get my new machines so again will be an item for research at Harrogate (might have to go for 2 days at this rate !)
Thanks again for your feedback - you have me thinking about what I really need and is there a different way of covering my needs...

Cheers...

 

[shed9]

Hickorystick, if a band saw is key to your workflow then get the Hammer, quality is spot on. One thing to note if you buy new from Felder, expect at least a three month wait after placing your order and haggle the price down - you will probably be offered some extra blades as opposed to dropping the price but these are likely to be replaced anyway - either insist on price reduction or a wheel kit (or both).

Likewise sounds like the table saw is probably quite key too, especially if you are expecting to rip a lot of stock. My advice on this one would be to get the best you can afford now - even if that means something else drops off the shopping list now. I have no direct experience of the Xcalibur but like you I have seen lots of recommendations on here and comparative to the Axi variant it looks like chalk and cheese.

As for my reasoning on a separate planer and thicknesser, this is mostly down to work flow, time and convenience. The quality is spot on, no issues there but there are times when it would be more productive for me to have separate machines. That said, if space is tight then maybe a combined machine would be more logical for you.

In regards to the SCMS, the Festool is lighter than the Bosch, something that I actually don't like about the Kapex. I'm shop based so extra weight in an SCMS is better in my opinion. There are some great deals on both saws at the moment however I suspect that Festool may have a new Kapex on the horizon based on recent polls being carried out - just my opinion and I may be way off here.

Harrogate will probably help with physical access to the machines and you may be able to get a deal. Good luck.

 

[Wizard9999]

Hickorystick, if a band saw is key to your workflow then get the Hammer, quality is spot on. One thing to note if you buy new from Felder, expect at least a three month wait after placing your order and haggle the price down - you will probably be offered some extra blades as opposed to dropping the price but these are likely to be replaced anyway - either insist on price reduction or a wheel kit (or both).

Hickorystick

If you aren't already doing so I suggest you read the thread that Orchard started (startrite-352e-or-hammer-n3800-t78411.html).

If having read it you (like I suspect Orchard is) still keen on Hammer, maybe the two of you could hook up to try and get the best possible deal from Felder.

Terry.

 

[Hickorystick]

Thanks Terry - good call.
Have just posted on the other thread...

Actually - another question for you... I saw in another thread about someone having a hard time with after sales service at Woodford when buying an Xcalibur PT and returning it. After your suggestion I'm tempted with the table saw (previously called Xcalibur) and was wondering if you ever bought one and were happy with the overall product and service etc..
One thing people rave about with Axminster is their great customer service and it is part of my selection criteria..

 

[Wizard9999]

Thanks Terry - good call.
Have just posted on the other thread...

Actually - another question for you... I saw in another thread about someone having a hard time with after sales service at Woodford when buying an Xcalibur PT and returning it. After your suggestion I'm tempted with the table saw (previously called Xcalibur) and was wondering if you ever bought one and were happy with the overall product and service etc..
One thing people rave about with Axminster is their great customer service and it is part of my selection criteria..

Hickorystick

Until my workshop is built I have no space for a table saw, so no I have not bought one. I share your concerns after having read about Pete's experience with Woodford. Anyone I have come across with an Xcalibur has rated the saw but I can't recall any comment on Woodford, good or bad. My other slight issue is that I would like to see one of the new ones ahead of any decision to buy and so far I have not come across somebody in the South of England wit ne of the new ones that others who are interested can see.

However, I am being told my workshop is marginal in terms of size to accommodate a table saw, so in the short term I am planning to use a band saw / track saw combo for a bit and 'settle in' to my workshop before buying such a big bit of kit.

Terry.