New Toy - Clifton no 4

[clogs]

money well spent I say......

 

[G S Haydon]

I applaud the current owners for improving the quality. The grey is a nicer look, a one piece cap iron and the Y lever is now thicker. Enjoy it!

 

[Ollie78]

It's lovely, I do like a properly made thing.
I must disagree with @G S Haydon about the colour. I rather liked the green of the older ones.

Ollie

 

[Vann]

Unpacked in workshop. Fantastic quality casting and finish. No two piece cap iron, didn’t know that when ordered but don’t think I’d know if it made any difference to performance...

IMHO, as a great fan of two-piece cap-irons, I'd say the two-piece will make no difference to the performance of a plane with a thick cutting iron (such as your Clifton or an LN).

Where it might give you an advantage would be if you hone by hand (no honing guide). Then you can lift the 'deflector' (Record parlance) off, quick hone, drop the deflector back in place and put the double-iron back in the plane. No mucking around with the cap screw and repositioning the cap-iron.

I own two older Cliftons (from the Clico era) - a No.3 and a No.4.5. I quite like the green - but I've not heard from anyone who doesn't like the charcoal.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Jarno]

That is a very nice plane!
And yes, oh my god, that is a hunkin' big chunk of plane iron.

 

[WideningGyre]

That must be one **** of a plane if it is delivered with a police escort.

Spewed morning coffee all over my keyboard.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I applaud the current owners for improving the quality. The grey is a nicer look, a one piece cap iron and the Y lever is now thicker. Enjoy it!

They have also changed to using irons that have been cryogenically treated so that they hold an edge longer and continued to manufacture them in Sheffield.

I have had the 4.5 and 5.5 Green versions dating back to Clico days and am very happy with them - good choice @Fitzroy

 

[D_W]

I haven't looked at their irons, but chances are they have switched alloy to A2 if there is cryo treatment on the tail end.

The switch in alloys probably improves edge life a little of the prior irons (O1) were underhardened. The point of cryo treatment in general is to add a point of hardness and to clean up any sloppiness in the normalizing step (temperature inaccuracies) in heat treatment. It doesn't make steel "tougher" or "more long wearing".

For people buying these planes and used to the O1 irons, the question is probably also whether or not they want A2 irons instead of O1. The general answer to that is normally yes, but I could make a 20 hour a week side income making O1 irons for people with LN planes and probably never run out of orders.

All that said, alloy doesn't matter that much, even if you don't always get what you prefer.

Cryo treatment is something I've never seen properly described by woodworking retailers, so this is no big slight - just pointing it out. The change to A2 is almost certainly because it cuts labor and surface grinding vs. O1.

Clifton's prior O1 had a wonderful stamp, but pictures of edge wear suggest that the grain was enlarged a little on it from forging heats and never cycled back to small. A2 is far easier for manufacturers to get right.

 

[Hornbeam]

I have 2 Cliftons, a 4 and a 51/2 both the older green colour and both are excellent. I never like the 2 piece cap and changed them both, One issue with the 2 piece cap is that if you use water stones then unless you are really careful the stay set part can trap water
When Clifton make such a good quality British made tool I struggle to see why anybody would buy American or Canadian tools (unless you live in US/Canada)

 

[D_W]

How much have LV and LN tools actually sold in England while Clifton has been up and running, either before the current version or the prior one?

 

[Hornbeam]

I cant answer the question of sales figures. Having used/owned planes from all 3 manufacturers I think they are all excellent with some slight differences. From a personal perspective I would always chose to support local manufacturers products unless there was an obvious benefit in performance

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

My green Clifton #3, at least twenty years old, is my favorite smoother. The two-piece chipbreaker works nicely for me after I cleaned it well and put a bead of silicone in the groove to both hold it together and give it a bit of flex. I have no issues with the O1 blade, for the type of wood I work. Can't remember what vendor it was purchased from, but it was significantly less than the comparable LN #3 (and was much nicer looking!).

 

[D_W]

My green Clifton #3, at least twenty years old, is my favorite smoother. The two-piece chipbreaker works nicely for me after I cleaned it well and put a bead of silicone in the groove to both hold it together and give it a bit of flex. I have no issues with the O1 blade, for the type of wood I work. Can't remember what vendor it was purchased from, but it was significantly less than the comparable LN #3 (and was much nicer looking!).

highland and thebestthings had them as I recall.

I saw one at highland in person for about 2 minutes in what was my first lesson about what you will see in person vs. what you'll find listed online. That was way back in 2008, but there was also a running story on woodnet at the time from Bob Feeser (?) I can't believe I can remember a name if that's correct getting a defective clifton that both highland and clifton agreed was defective. They both agreed that Bob should have the issue fixed, but neither fixed it.

That was harmful for clifton being able to sell things in the US as that was a heavily trafficked forum at the time.

I mentioned that the grain was enlarged a little bit, but nobody seemed to be bothered by it. My earlier heat treat attempts had slightly larger grain before I came up with a thermal process to shrink it and the reality is, maybe the tools are not quite as good, but I wouldn't notice it and didn't on plane irons.

Even Larrin Thomas, who is sort of the public domain legitimate authority on metal talks about shrinking grain and then says "it's not always the end all be all".

I'd have had a couple of their irons, regardless if they hadn't been $90 each at highland. The stamp is a visual delight that is unmatched in modern hand tools.

 

[Jacob]

I had a Clifton 4 for a while. I like trying things out just to see if there really is an advantage in things which cost 10 times the 2nd hand price of a Record for instance.
Found no particular advantage. Was heavier than a Record and made of surprisingly soft steel - such that it picked up a deep scratch very soon on a bit of grit or something. But then it was easy to grind off (wet n dry paper backed 80 grit used wet).
Sold it.

 

[WideningGyre]

Never mind the half thou shaving and beautiful surface left behind on the sycamore.

Let's fisk Clifton half to death just to show how much we think we know.

 

[D_W]

Never mind the half thou shaving and beautiful surface left behind on the sycamore.

Let's fisk Clifton half to death just to show how much we think we know.

We could talk about things we actually find stimulating, just at the risk that someone from the southern US would show up under an alt claiming to be from Cardiff, and who has never had the courage to show his own work or methods. Ever.

It's a shame that on the hand tool side anyone would consider thin shavings out of the ordinary, but I doubt the point of the post was to talk about the shaving.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

I bought mine way before 2008 and I recall a close-out caused by forum rumors. Might have something like “Woodworkers Warehouse”. Plane was lovely and much less than a LN. In my accumulation, I have many, many dozens of planes, antiques, vintage and modern. Of that number, there might be 5 or 6 that are regularly used and the Clifton is in that group (Others are a MF jack, LN #7, Bailey #3, LV miter plane and LN low angle jack). None have A2 blades.

 

[G S Haydon]

Would have no idea on sales figures but I'm sure they are doing well in the UK.
I think the current crop are very nicely done. It would be nice to see a router plane added, but if they're super busy I understand why they don't.

I think the very last step to get them A1 for me would be getting the screw that fixes the knob flush and following the shape.

They won't ever rival LN for volume but I don't see that being any issue. I have no need to buy a plane but if I was flush and in the UK I'd go for Clifton. There's no price difference in the UK that I'm aware of.

 

[G S Haydon]

Also, I notice that the lateral adjustment lever looks like a one piece design. The lever on LN's is a brass tab screwed into the lever (please correct me). Never seemed a particularly clever way to make it.

 

[thetyreman]

must admit the plane looks really nice and well made, I'd like to try one.