New SCMS

[Dibs-h]

Chaps

I'm "umming and ahhing" about getting a replacement SCMS.

Now I was going to get another el-cheapo - got offered one of those large MacAllister (B&Poo) ones for < £100. But have since seen the Hitachi C8FSE (not in the flesh obviously).

From the look of it - the Hitachi appears like it will trench.But having said that I was also thinking of getting a RAS.

So the question is how crap (or not) is the MacAllister and how much better can one expect the Hitachi to be?

Cheers

Dibs

 

[big soft moose]

i think the main difference is that the hitachi - if its like the one wizer got- is a front slider , which means you can put it against the wall and save space (which may not be a prime consideration in your palatial new workshop)

the Mac isnt that bad - the ones ive seen seem to be okay without much play in the rails (which isnt true of the performance power crap), but the blade it comes with will be awful so you'll need to budget to replace that.

have you looked at the axminster slider as a compromise ? we have one at work and its pretty good, and the blade it is supplied with is okay.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axmi ... 796854.htm

(that said do you really need a scms at all - ive decided not in my case since i got a tablesaw, i'm also shedding my non sliding cms as again it seems redundant now i have the 419)

 

[Londoner100]

I have the Hitachi and its really rather good, it not the type of saw you can place right up against the wall but it is quite compact. The blade it came with is ok but I changed mine for a decent Freund blade and it made the world of difference. It is accurate and it the first mitre saw I have had that will cut at 90 degrees and be consistent every time overall I am very happy with it.

Ian

 

[Dibs-h]

It isn't the front slider like Wizer's - those are hugely more. The Hitachi C8FSE is about £220 delivered so more than double what the Mac one is being offered to me.

I have a lot of studwork to do for the inner skin - so felt it would speed matters up. Whilst the Hitachi is just over twice the price - was wondering whether one should push the boat out a bit? Or not bother and put that towards a RAS?

Edit: Just realised the Hitachi only bevels one way. Or how about a Makita LS013 (there's one on the bay at the mo.)?

 

[Woody Alan]

I have just bought a new SCMS I was very close to getting the Makita but I was put off in the end by the vertical handle. This may be a ridiculous reason but it doesn't seem ideally placed. Also my main useage is going to be heavier duty. I think from my web readings the Makita is highly rated for architrave cornice etc.
I do have a Dewalt 712 with very little usage for sale soon (on hols for a week from tomorrow) It has only been used for two projects one to fit out the ground floor of my previous house with oak skirting and Architrave and door frames, and the other to build a pergola for the hot tub. I still have original box and packing.

I will offer it here before going on Ebay. I don't have time for pics etc now.

Cheers Alan

 

[jedmc571]

Dibs

Spend your money well, the cheap ones are............CHEAP, and the accuracy is cp
ompromised,the Makita LS1013 is the dogs dooby :lol:

Had mine about 5 years now, and still on the first blade, still dead on accurate as well.

I think they're down to near £300, a steal, and worth every penny IMO, have a look at DM Tools

Cheers

Jed

 

[wizer]

I'm a big fan of Hitachi, but not having used my new one yet, I can't comment on their mitre saws. But I'm guessing that it's going to be up there among Bosch and Makita. I think DeWalt's are highly regarded but I've never seen\used one.

 

[OPJ]

Hitachi stuff is generally very well made. The Japanese tend to prefer Hitachi kit as the motors are sourced from their home land, where as (apparently), motors in Makita's tools come from China.

I bought a second-hand LS1013 not long ago and I'm very pleased with it. Dust extraction is crap (as with so many saws) but it seems very accurate to me (or, if it isn't then, at the very least, it is consistent! :wink. Only thing I really don't like (apart from the extraction) is that to lock the saw head and stop it from sliding you have to use a second knob behind the one used to secure the mitre angle. I find this a bit awkward at times and prefer to have a knob that locks directly on to the rails. But, you can't have everything.

From what I can remember, the DW712 will only tilt in one direction - the 10in Makita bevels both ways and motor housing is angled so that it doesn't foul the fence at 45°. Apart from that, the DW712 is regarded as the most accurate saw DeWalt have made (to within 0.1°, I believe).

Do you tend to do any trenching/housing/dado cuts? If so, I'd strongly advise you to go for a saw where the depth stop can simply be flipped out of the way (and back again) when you want to cut something to length.

Andy King did a group test of 8in SCMSs in a recent issue of Good Woodworking. The 8in Makita has dual sliding rails, meaning you save a little more space behind compared with most other models.

 

[Peter T]

I've got the DeWalt SCMS and it's OK but I couldn't in all honesty recommend it.

It comes standard with a 5 degree negative rake blade, which is good because you can cut on the pull stroke but the cut edge is poor, particularly in hardwood.

Also you can't use it for trenching since, at anything less than full depth, the saw is running downhill so you cut a slope rather than a parallel section.

 

[MickCheese]

I have the Makita LS1013 and it is really nice. As it has an induction motor it is a lot quieter than other cheaper brands and I suspect the McAllister will be in the brush motor group and LOUD. It is accurate and well made. When using it is feels like a quality tool. I would guess the Hitachi will be in the same quality territory.

Mick

Edit : I said it was an induction motor that is not correct but it is fairly quiet.

 

[woodbloke]

I'm "umming and ahhing" about getting a replacement SCMS.

Why? I've never had one, never used one and can't see the benefit as a fixed tool in a workshop. As a site tool that can be lobbed into the back of a Transit at the end of a day...that's a different issue.
I think they take up a lot of valuable room in a 'shop that could usefully be used for another bit of kit.
Just my view, but not something I'd ever contemplate as a 'must have' in my 'shop - Rob

 

[Woody Alan]

Mickcheese wrote

As it has an induction motor it is a lot quieter than other cheaper brands

Sorry Mick it has a brush motor but it is quieter than others

Peter T wrote

I've got the DeWalt SCMS and it's OK but I couldn't in all honesty recommend it.

Without wishing to start a disagreement I have to disagree with you

It comes standard with a 5 degree negative rake blade, which is good because you can cut on the pull stroke but the cut edge is poor, particularly in hardwood.

That'll be because it's a blade designed for quick cuts in rough sawn softwood. It's a blade, a blade is not for life, it comes at the price point I changed the blade for a multi tooth freud and got clean cuts in oak 5" skirting from front to rear and rear to front to a finished mitre perfect. I then changed it back to build a pergola.

Also you can't use it for trenching since, at anything less than full depth, the saw is running downhill so you cut a slope rather than a parallel section.

I really don't know what you're saying other than suggesting the sliding rails are not parallel with the bed of the saw. I cut many trenching cuts quickly and accurately, I can only assume yours needs setting up. I had to adjust mine out of the box to get perfect cuts,(not for parallel though) that's why the adjustment facility is there. [/quote]

Cheers Alan

 

[Dibs-h]

Why? I've never had one, never used one and can't see the benefit as a fixed tool in a workshop. As a site tool that can be lobbed into the back of a Transit at the end of a day...that's a different issue.
I think they take up a lot of valuable room in a 'shop that could usefully be used for another bit of kit.
Just my view, but not something I'd ever contemplate as a 'must have' in my 'shop - Rob

Thing is, I've had one and it made life easy cutting the roof on the workshop - not to mention the other bits and pieces. It may not really have a place in a workhsop, but makes life easy constructing one - as well as finishing the house, which is rapidly creeping up the list.

If I wasn't constructing then I might have given it a miss, but because I am, it would make life so easy.

 

[woodsworth]

A company called Westward that i get some window hardware and other stuff from has the Makita LS0714 on special for £299.99

I don't know much about this saw but i do know the LS1214 (i think) I have is great. It also comes with a 14.4v drill driver and 2 batteries. I also saw several other Makita's on special else where. I think they are coming out with a new model or something as they are off loading a lot of the other models at special prices.

The other thing they have on special i might pick up is a naked 12v Makita drill driver for £24.99

 

[Aled Dafis]

I also have the Makita LS1214 and it's a great saw with very impressive capacities (12" x 4") and it's very accurate, so would it be an option for you to buy this saw now and forgo the RAS altogether? The blade supplied is also excellent, and still gives a "planed" finish on endgrain even after about 3 years of general workshop use and a good few odd jobs on site.

Cheers

Aled

 

[wizer]

Spot on Dibs. Once you have used a SCMS it's v.hard to give one up. It's easily, hands down my most used machine. This is because my Bosch built 2 decks, a workshop, a shed plus renovated two houses. Granted, it might not get much use building fine furniture. But I do use mine a lot in the workshop. If I just need something chopped then a SCMS is a workhorse. But I agree with Rob that they are space eaters. Hence my rather expensive (shut up) recent upgrade.

 

[SPinonit]

How crap (or not) is the MacAllister and how much better can one expect the Hitachi to be?

I have the MacAllister and I find it ok, but it does feel and look as though it is built to a price - but that's not unreasonable as it doesn't cost the earth. I'd suggest that if you want perfect (or as near dammit) results, the the MacAllister may not be the best buy straight out of the box. I've used it to do quite a large decking area and only just moving on to finer cuts, which I want to be more precise and I've not yet tried to 'fettle' the saw for better accuracy - or even sure if it can be fettled.

Out of the box it has a bit of play in its settings, even when locked off. The twin laser guides only let you know very roughly where the blade will cut - the only way to be sure is to lower the blade to the work and then adjust the workpiece. Today, I noticed that the lasers or the 90 degree marker may not be true, but I cannot [yet] be sure.

I haven't used any other SCMS, although I've seen the DeWalt monsters one of our teams use at work and they look so far out of my one's league, I wasn't sure they were the same type of tool. They appear to be a lot larger, strudier and smoother - they just look 'proper', but I bet they cost a fortune. For now, The Mac's fine for me, but I think I shall notice its shortcomings more and more.

the blade it comes with will be awful

Spot on - the blade tore through wood rather than cutting through it. I quickly changed it and now the cuts themselves are fine. The saw doesn't seem to struggle with power, but I've only cut softwood so far.

Hope this helps a bit , Steve

 

[OPJ]

Well, if you don't have the space for a half-decent table saw with a sliding table then, for me, a sliding compound mitre saw is the next big thing. Quite often, I work with large lumps of wood where it's easier to keep that still and move the tool to make the cut. You could, of course, use a circular saw and jig to do the same thing but I find these saws far more efficient.

Another thing I like is that the working height is usually above that of most other machines. For me, in a small workshop, this is very important as you're less likely to foul something else when handling longer lengths of wood. A table saw would be down low with everything else and requires the kind of clearance space we can't all afford.

Of course, what will suit you largely depends on what you do. If you had the space for a large table saw, you could probably do without a cross-cutting saw altogether!

By the way, the Makita LS1013 does have a brush motor but it also has a lovely soft-start to it and brake when you release the trigger. 8)

 

[George_N]

My only experience of McAlister kit is a 1/2" router and that is pretty awful. I also don't have a SCMS because I couldn't afford a good quality one and I didn't trust the accuracy of the cheap ones. I ended up with Dewalt 703 which is very accurate and readily adjusted if it should ever get knocked off it's settings, If I need greater capacity I can use my Triton Workcentre in either table saw or crosscut mode.

 

[big soft moose]

Well, if you don't have the space for a half-decent table saw with a sliding table then, for me, a sliding compound mitre saw is the next big thing. Quite often, I work with large lumps of wood where it's easier to keep that still and move the tool to make the cut. You could, of course, use a circular saw and jig to do the same thing but I find these saws far more efficient.

Another thing I like is that the working height is usually above that of most other machines. For me, in a small workshop, this is very important as you're less likely to foul something else when handling longer lengths of wood. A table saw would be down low with everything else and requires the kind of clearance space we can't all afford.

Of course, what will suit you largely depends on what you do. If you had the space for a large table saw, you could probably do without a cross-cutting saw altogether!

By the way, the Makita LS1013 does have a brush motor but it also has a lovely soft-start to it and brake when you release the trigger. 8)

you've got about the same spaces me tho (single car garage right) so you could fit a 419 or similar if you wanted to (in fact the footprint isnt much different to a big scms)

with regard to clearance space mine on wheels and lives against the wall when not in use only coming out into the centre of the shop when needed.

I'm not knocking the smcs as its a useful tool if you can fit it in - but given a choice between it and the table saw there is no contest.