New handsaw recomendation

[mark w]

For a while now I have been looking for a replacement handsaw, my original Pax panel saw has seen better days, I was going to replace it with a new Pax but unfortunately the quality seems to have dropped quite a bit, I looked at one at Yandles only to discover the blade was not straight and the same with one from Classic Hand Tools. I looked at two Victor saws at Axminster Power Tools and they were also not straight, its worth noting that (I believe) they are made by the same company.
I was tempted to buy a Lie Nielsen, but the price (£185.00) put me off. I then discovered a Spear & Jackson priced at £24.00 including delivery it looked OK on the website so I took a punt. It arrived and I`ve used it, the blade is dead straight, it cuts true to a line and is very sharp, the handle is beech and is acceptable, though I may make a new one. If you are looking for a new saw try this http://www.spear-and-jackson.com/produc ... -back-saws.

 

[J_SAMa]

Interesting. It's good to see there are still quality tools at the lower end of the market. We are not limited to just vintage and premium (and Japanese).
The webpage claims that it has "universal teeth" for ripping and crosscutting... Would you please be so kind and shed some light on this? Is it possible to reproduce that grinding with hand filing?
That said, no matter what those teeth really are, I'd still just re-sharpen them to a more traditional pattern.

 

[MIGNAL]

I have what I think is virtually the same saw except mine was filed as a rip cut, 7 TPI. I reshaped the handle a bit.
I paid a similar price around 4 or 5 years ago.

 

[mark w]

I bought the 22" 10 point, to me it cuts just like a crosscut saw, I did try to rip cut with it, but it was like rip cutting with a crosscut saw!

 

[MIGNAL]

I also have their Tenon saw in the same series. That was universal teeth. I've had it a few years so when it came to sharpening I converted it to a cross cut. Perfectly good saw, if you can get over the handle or are prepared to put some work into it.

 

[mark w]

I think i will have a go at making a saw handle, its the only thing that lets the saw down, full marks to S&J for making it in wood, plastic is horrible. i still cant believe how good the blade is, the new Pax would have cost me around £80 or £90 the S&J blade is equally as good and has the added merit of being straight.
Perhaps Mignal you would upload a picture of your re-shaped saw handle, I`m looking for ideas.
By the way for anyone who is interested Workshop Heaven are holding a saw handle competition http://workshopheaven.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... aking.html

 

[MIGNAL]

I thought I had a picture in my photobucket account but I can't seem to find it. I'll take another when time permits.
I don't really see the point of making a whole new handle unless you want to turn it into a stunning example. There's usually enough wood on the originals to make them more comfortable in the hand and make them a bit easier on the eye. You probably won't be able to do all the flourishes though. . . but do you really need them.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

There's some interesting background on backsaws here - http://www.backsaw.net/ - including handle templates for saws old and new (scroll down the homepage, and click on the links on the right-hand side near the bottom of the page).

 

[mark w]

I suppose comfort is the main thing for a saw handle, but looking at the Two Lawyers saws, style makes a difference.

 

[MIGNAL]

Here we are:



The Tenon saw is the better of the two. With the other I was limited by the thickness of the handle. In fact I would have been better served gluing on 'pistol grips' to increase it's thickness and getting the grip a little more rounded. Having said that I rarely use it. At 7 TPI it's just a bit too coarse for my needs. It is taper ground - going from 1.1 mm's to 0.9 mm.
Both of these saws were bought from a local tool shop. I think the Tenon saw was £27, but I'm going back 5 years or so. I consider it a real bargain. It's all the better if you can sharpen it to the type that you want. 90% of the time it probably doesn't matter and you can use the Sellers method of filing everything rip cut.
It's just an idea of what can be done on a relatively low budget.

 

[mark w]

Nice work Mignal, my saw sharpening is a bit hit and miss, but I`m improving.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I suppose comfort is the main thing for a saw handle, but looking at the Two Lawyers saws, style makes a difference.

I'd agree with that. Clearly, the first consideration is a saw that cuts cleanly and efficiently, but one with a comfortable handle is one you can use for longer without becoming fatigued or cramped. Style is subjective, of course, but it's surprising how often the good-looking tools are also the better working tools.

I can't claim to be an expert since I've only made three or four saw handles (OK - four; but one was definitely the beginning of the learning curve). The conclusion I've reached is that three things contribute to a comfortable saw handle - the hang, the shaping where the hand holds it, and the finish.

The 'hang' is the angle the handle makes with the blade. You want your hand, wrist and forearm to be in a straight line line when sawing, so that the muscles of the forearm are relaxed and the wrist isn't 'cocked'. That way you can saw for longer, and the you're more responsive to the feedback you get from the saw. For a backsaw intended for crosscutting at the bench, you can check whether the saw has the right hang for you by using it for a normal crosscutting job - if you are standing nice and relaxed, and the toothline is nicely parallel to the bench surface with your hand/wrist/forearm straight and relaxed, gripping the saw gently, the hang is about right. If you find you have to cock your wrist up or down a bit, maybe the hang on a replacement handle should be adjusted a bit to suit you.

Shape of handhold depends entirely on your hand, and it needs a bit of trial and error to find exactly what's right for you.

Finish is again personal. I don't like shiny, glossy lacquer finishes; I'd rather have the wood feel that an oiled finish gives, so I finish my saw handles with three coats of Danish oil, then allow the natural polishing of use to burnish the handgrip.

Style is entirely a personal thing. Until I bought a pre-1850s Drabble and Sanderson panel saw, I put up with some dreadful handles. The ergonomics of the old shapes have to be used to be believed - they really melt into your hand and the saw becomes an extension of your arm. They take more work to make than a more modern pared-down shape, but I think the effort is well worth it.

 

[MMUK]

I must be missing something, I've been using Bahco hardpoint saws for years without a problem. Can't remember the last time my old Nicholson was used :?

 

[mark w]

Thanks for that very useful information Cheshirechappie, I`ll bear it in mind when I make a saw handle.
MMUK, I too use hardpoint saws for cutting MDF etc, but nothining cuts timber like a properly sharpened (what`s the opposite to a hardpoint saw? softpoint!) handsaw.

 

[bugbear]

Style is subjective, of course, but it's surprising how often the good-looking tools are also the better working tools.

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Style is entirely a personal thing. Until I bought a pre-1850s Drabble and Sanderson panel saw, I put up with some dreadful handles. The ergonomics of the old shapes have to be used to be believed - they really melt into your hand and the saw becomes an extension of your arm. They take more work to make than a more modern pared-down shape, but I think the effort is well worth it.

I think style and comfort are correlated (not causal). No one is going to put all the effort of making a stylish handle into an otherwise poor saw.

But they are correlated. By far the easiest way to spot a good saw is to look for a beautiful handle.

BugBear