New hand planes?

[BearTricks]

I know a lot of people tend to lean towards buying old planes and fixing them up rather than buying new but are there any new planes worth buying?

I have a woodie for general flattening and an old Stanley 4 1/2 (that I bought second hand but did minimal work on as it had apparently been bought new over half a century ago and sat in a cupboard since) for smoothing and they get me through 90% of what I need to do. The woodie is a bit temperamental however and I wouldn't mind getting something new that works more or less out of the box to speed up planing the ridiculous amount of sapele taking up the front room.

I can't exactly justify spending money on a Lie Nielsen or Veritas that isn't on sale so I've been eyeing up an Axminster Rider. Are there any others worth considering?

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[adidat]

Quangsheng from workshop heaven are pretty decent!

Adidat

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

I've only got one new plane (and I have a lot of planes), it is a QS block plane from WH. It is a very well made tool and if I were buying new planes I would not hesitate to buy QS. I don't really see how LN or LV could be much better. I suppose if I won the lottery (unlikely as I don't enter) I would buy clifton because they're UK made

 

[Mr_P]

Only one new plane here and its a Rider block plane, no complaints and happy to recomend with caveats.

Its heavy, I'm a big chap and I like that. Mine was perfect from the box, heard some aren't.

Think Peter Seftons Woodriver range is similar to the Quangsheng range from Matthew.

http://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/epages ... /WoodRiver

 

[iNewbie]

I can't exactly justify spending money on a Lie Nielsen or Veritas that isn't on sale so I've been eyeing up an Axminster Rider.

Buy one secondhand. Seriously.

 

[MIGNAL]

Why not fix the woodie so it's no longer 'temperamental' ?

 

[ED65]

I can't exactly justify spending money on a Lie Nielsen or Veritas that isn't on sale

To be perfectly honest I'm not sure if either of them are really worth their money anyway, not at the prices over here, so I wouldn't recommend them even if they were in your price range.

Perhaps a better question than what brands are worth considering would be how you can fix up your existing planes so they work right, unless neither is the size you need? If you need a 6 then a 4 isn't a really decent substitute, even if it's a good one.

 

[deema]

I would either wait for the sales / promotions or buy secondhand either a Clifton a LV or a LN. They hold their value and are a delight to use on the bench. If your doing site work, have a couple of Record / Stanley planes which are circa 50 years old, not the best, but you don't loose too much sleep if they go walkies / fall from a height.

 

[Hatherton_wood]

I've yet to see a perfect Rider plane - everyone has some issue that needs work to rectify - once done they work fine. Shame the quality control is not better. Quangsheng are far better and on the block planes I much prefer their V3 adjustment mechanism to LN's which quite frankly can be rough in operation sometimes. Veritas are better than both in this repsect. On the bench planes QS are a good cheaper substitute for for LN or Veritas and nearly as good. But none of them seem to have the ability to get such nicely finished castings as the early Stanley's or Record's - maybe the casting sand used these days?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

"I've yet to see a perfect Rider plane - everyone has some issue that needs work to rectify"
Cost engineering?
About the best finished casting on all my planes (old Stanley, Record, and Marples) is a Woden. The worst is a Marples.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I know a lot of people tend to lean towards buying old planes and fixing them up rather than buying new but are there any new planes worth buying?

I have a woodie for general flattening and an old Stanley 4 1/2 (that I bought second hand but did minimal work on as it had apparently been bought new over half a century ago and sat in a cupboard since) for smoothing and they get me through 90% of what I need to do. The woodie is a bit temperamental however and I wouldn't mind getting something new that works more or less out of the box to speed up planing the ridiculous amount of sapele taking up the front room.

I can't exactly justify spending money on a Lie Nielsen or Veritas that isn't on sale so I've been eyeing up an Axminster Rider. Are there any others worth considering?

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

Hi BT

LN and LV make high quality planes. No doubt about that. Much of the benefit lies in the better quality adjustment and fit-and-finish, and the better quality blades (requiring minimal flattening from LN and none from LV). This is important for some, but not all. A tuned vintage Stanley (albeit with more backlash) and fitted with an aftermarket blade for increased edge holding (there will be those here who will dispute this) can perform as well as the LN and LV. I have a UK-made Stanley #3 with a LV PM-V11 blade and chipbreaker which has superb performance. The question is whether Quangsheng planes have the same level of adjustment as the LN/LV or the Stanley? Others here can answer this.

What you might consider is a smaller size Stanley to your #4 1/2, such as a #3 (my preference) or a #4. The advantage of the smaller planes is less effort in honing and using. They are more nimble than the #4 1/2.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[YorkshireMartin]

After spending months on and off fiddling with old stanley planes, aside from my shoulder and router planes, i've had very little luck. By the time I've messed about diagnosing the issues, fettling, sourcing parts, installing parts and so on, I might as well have bought a decent new plane.

My personal take on this, is that I'd rather have a single high quality plane, say a 5 1/2 jack, than 3 planes which half work and that would take an amateur like me, months to fix.

If you factor all that in, a Veritas or Lie Nielsen is cheap as chips to be honest. But it does depend on how you like to spend your time.

I'm going to add this, controversially perhaps. An Axminster Rider plane, if you ever decide to sell up or change, will be worth about the price of a medium donner kebab. A lie nielsen or vertias will probably be worth 60% or more of what it cost you originally. This is often overlooked in discussion, but it's a serious consideration for me personally.

I'm a beginner so your skill level may well dictate otherwise, but in the year I've been at this, I've decided that cheap tools are false economy and I've lost literally months of creative time to pissing about with them, something I dont wish to repeat.

 

[Steve1066]

I was only reading this th other day
stanley-62-sweetheart-la-jack-plane-t67083.html

 

[bugbear]

I know a lot of people tend to lean towards buying old planes and fixing them up rather than buying new but are there any new planes worth buying?

I have a woodie for general flattening and an old Stanley 4 1/2 (that I bought second hand but did minimal work on as it had apparently been bought new over half a century ago and sat in a cupboard since) for smoothing and they get me through 90% of what I need to do. The woodie is a bit temperamental however and I wouldn't mind getting something new that works more or less out of the box to speed up planing the ridiculous amount of sapele taking up the front room.

I can't exactly justify spending money on a Lie Nielsen or Veritas that isn't on sale so I've been eyeing up an Axminster Rider. Are there any others worth considering?

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

If you own a woodie jack, it'll do serious/bulk stock planing with more ease than ANY metallic plane.

A sharp, tuned, waxed wooden jack is a thing of true joy. (*)

BugBear

(*) and mine's a Preston

 

[undergroundhunter]

I know a lot of people tend to lean towards buying old planes and fixing them up rather than buying new but are there any new planes worth buying?

I have a woodie for general flattening and an old Stanley 4 1/2 (that I bought second hand but did minimal work on as it had apparently been bought new over half a century ago and sat in a cupboard since) for smoothing and they get me through 90% of what I need to do. The woodie is a bit temperamental however and I wouldn't mind getting something new that works more or less out of the box to speed up planing the ridiculous amount of sapele taking up the front room.

I can't exactly justify spending money on a Lie Nielsen or Veritas that isn't on sale so I've been eyeing up an Axminster Rider. Are there any others worth considering?

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

If you own a woodie jack, it'll do serious/bulk stock planing with more ease than ANY metallic plane.

A sharp, tuned, waxed wooden jack is a thing of true joy. (*)

BugBear

(*) and mine's a Preston

+1,

I only use wooden planes now the exception to the rule is my type 11 no4 witch I use for end grain, this is only because the adjustment is quicker. Wood on wood is just magic, metal planes take some serious lubrication (wax, oil, whatever) to keep up with a plain old woodie.

What about the wooden jack is causing you problems?

Matt

 

[custard]

Do you have a method for grinding the iron (that's grinding, not honing, i.e. removing relatively large quantities of metal to establish an initial 25 degree angle)? That would ideally be a powered grindstone or a powered linisher.

If you don't then stick with bailey style planes (like your 4 1/2) and their relatively thin irons. Stay well clear of thick irons and avoid any fancy alloys like A2 like the plague. Grinding stuff like that by hand, even with an ultra coarse grit diamond stone, is just a marathon dispiriting slog that will take at least 30 minutes of constant hard work and possibly much much longer if you have a badly abused old woodie or a cryogenically hardened A2 iron.

By the way, did you get the Swiss Pear Wood that I sent you?

 

[worn thumbs]

I know a lot of people tend to lean towards buying old planes and fixing them up rather than buying new but are there any new planes worth buying?

I have a woodie for general flattening and an old Stanley 4 1/2 (that I bought second hand but did minimal work on as it had apparently been bought new over half a century ago and sat in a cupboard since) for smoothing and they get me through 90% of what I need to do. The woodie is a bit temperamental however and I wouldn't mind getting something new that works more or less out of the box to speed up planing the ridiculous amount of sapele taking up the front room.

I can't exactly justify spending money on a Lie Nielsen or Veritas that isn't on sale so I've been eyeing up an Axminster Rider. Are there any others worth considering?

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

Hi BT

LN and LV make high quality planes. No doubt about that. Much of the benefit lies in the better quality adjustment and fit-and-finish, and the better quality blades (requiring minimal flattening from LN and none from LV). This is important for some, but not all. A tuned vintage Stanley (albeit with more backlash) and fitted with an aftermarket blade for increased edge holding (there will be those here who will dispute this) can perform as well as the LN and LV. I have a UK-made Stanley #3 with a LV PM-V11 blade and chipbreaker which has superb performance. The question is whether Quangsheng planes have the same level of adjustment as the LN/LV or the Stanley? Others here can answer this.

What you might consider is a smaller size Stanley to your #4 1/2, such as a #3 (my preference) or a #4. The advantage of the smaller planes is less effort in honing and using. They are more nimble than the #4 1/2.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I agree with the points about a good wooden jack and the #3.The problem is that few people have tried a good wooden jack and the planes themselves are becoming scarcer.I must have been one of the last to have used a wooden jack in our woodwork lessons (in the 60's) and it was absolutely fine if you picked a good one.A bad one was a different matter altogether and if a modern day amateur picks up a blunt,distorted or dry plane he is likely to struggle or to buy one of the "approved by amateurs" modern types.Where a wooden plane does have a weakness,it is dealing with man made boards and I would never plane the edge of plywood with one for fear of wearing a hollow.

It really is a worthwhile project to pick up a sound wooden plane and learn more about it.For one thing they are remarkably cheap and the quality of the irons is the equal of anything I have ever used.You need to be sure that the sole is flat and that the iron is truly sharp,apply a drop of linseed oil and learn the ways of adjusting with a small hammer.On two occasions I have been given virtually unused wooden jacks and it amazed me just how much oil they soaked up;the weight increased markedly and they became a pleasure to use.My first wooden jack had a broad arrow stamped on it and came from a government surplus shop.It remains a pleasure to use and holds a fine edge.

Modern quality planes are excellent and almost never used by professionals.Just as you find few earning a living on the £2,000 Scandinavian benches,you see most woodworkers using Stanley or Record of the #4 or #5 variety.There are ,of course a few exceptions and they tend to be based in a workshop at all times and not having to work on a sheet of ply perched on two oil drums with the rain blowing across the end of the ply.So much of the advice given to hobby woodworkers seems to come from hobbyists writing for the magazines and favourably reviewing the high priced hardware-and curiously enough the same hardware features prominently in the advertising space of the magazines.The attitude seems to be infectious;I know of one fellow trying to make a living in woodwork without a lot in the way of training and he wouldn't buy a Stanley iron because it wasn't made from cryogenically treated A2 steel.He was stumped when I asked what made it so necessary,but he had read in a magazine that it was a good idea.I suppose it would have made setting up his honing guide a less frequent operation and those of us who work with wood for a living often struggle to suppress a wry grin when we see one of those appear.

I have a couple of other bugbears about planes.One is why anybody would want a 4 1/2 or 5 1/2;have you ever seen anybody who could take four or five full width shavings with one?Hence my appreciation of the lighter #3.The other dislike is corrugated soles;they might have less contact surface with the wood,but if you plane across a knot and break out a small piece it is likely to roll along the groove and leave a line in the surface.

There is almost no plane that can't be made to work well and it is important to distinguish between tasks that make the plane work and tasks that make the plane pretty.The worst plane I ever made usable was of foreign origin and a neighbour bought it at a market.After struggling with it for a while he asked me to have a look at it-the sole was twisted and after half an hour with some emery paper and a piece of glass it was flat and required just a bit of frog adjustment and sharpening.Not bad for an outlay of a tenner for the plane.In summary you can pay a little or a lot for a plane,just make sure it is flat and sharp and it will work.

 

[BearTricks]

Do you have a method for grinding the iron (that's grinding, not honing, i.e. removing relatively large quantities of metal to establish an initial 25 degree angle)? That would ideally be a powered grindstone or a powered linisher.

If you don't then stick with bailey style planes (like your 4 1/2) and their relatively thin irons. Stay well clear of thick irons and avoid any fancy alloys like A2 like the plague. Grinding stuff like that by hand, even with an ultra coarse grit diamond stone, is just a marathon dispiriting slog that will take at least 30 minutes of constant hard work and possibly much much longer if you have a badly abused old woodie or a cryogenically hardened A2 iron.

By the way, did you get the Swiss Pear Wood that I sent you?

I have the bench grinder that I use for sharpening turning tools. There's another wheel on it that I use for primary bevels on various things.

I've been through the 30 minute (more like an hour) slog doing the bevel by hand too in the past. The iron is as sharp as it will ever be.

I will have an attempt at flatteningi the sole too.

And yes I received the pear. I sent you a PM via Tapatalk but it seems like the majority of my messages aren't going through. I've only uses a small piece of it to make a bottle opener handle that got some use on Christmas day. It's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[sploo]

I have a couple of other bugbears about planes.One is why anybody would want a 4 1/2 or 5 1/2;have you ever seen anybody who could take four or five full width shavings with one?Hence my appreciation of the lighter #3.

???

As a complete novice with planes I may be misunderstanding something, but after cleaning up and sharpening a 1960s vintage Stanley #4 1/2 it'll easily take full width shavings with little effort.

The 5 1/2 and 3 (or 4) are different tools for different purposes though, so it's not just that a #3 is a small #5 (physically yes, functionally no).

 

[Hatherton_wood]

The #4-1/2 is a great smoother I would not be without - it easily takes full width fine shavings for hours on end if need be - it is the one I would choose first myself.. The #3 and #4 I like too - just use the most suitable one for the job in hand.