New computer spec?

[McAldo]

Do any of you computer experts have an opinion on a Chromebook for home users or do you have no experience and are unable to comment?

Google approach is to provide applications which you access online.
Aside of gmail, they have their own equivalent of microsoft office, their photo editing apps and so forth.
So for instance, if you resize an image on their photo editor, the actual resizing is done by the server, not by your computer.
So, they promote the Chromebooks, which are:

- Not very powerful, because part of the processing is anyway done online.
- Not very spacious, because they assume you will store your data online.
- Not very useful when you are offline with no internet connection
- Not very flexible as for the applications you can use. Chromebooks run their own operating system, which is Linux based and a cousin of Android systems. So you are not going to be able to install the same software you use on a windows pc.

For certain kind of uses, Chromebooks are just fine. You can watch youtube and streaming services, write emails, even edit images or spreadsheets. Countless other companies, aside of google, produce free and paid software which runs online, from a browser.
In certain respects, a Chromebook is a comparatively very large smart phone, with a big screen and a keyboard.

For these reasons, they are quite cheap to get.

There is also the aspect Valhalla mentioned though. Google harvest data about users, and chromebooks are designed so that everything you do on them will be recorded. It is a very involved thing to describe what the implications are, and why you personally might or might not care about that.
There are many good outcomes out of mass harvesting of data, better products design for instance, ads which are actually relevant to you, calendars which autofill with your important dates, lots less typing required.
There are also not so good outcome. An insurance company might not offer you their best prices, because they know that statistically you are likely to accept more expensive deals. Parties and other political entities seeking approval or votes can show you information automatically tailored for you, including only things you approve of, and avoiding mentioning things you might object to. And so forth..

But the above is a little beyond what a chromebook is.

 

[gregmcateer]

Is now a good time to ask the best method to sharpen a computer?

 

[ovenpaa]

Yes, install a flavour of Linux.

 

[stuartpaul]

Is now a good time to ask the best method to sharpen a computer?

Believe you me, I’m starting to wonder!

 

[DrPhill]

Google approach is to provide applications which you access online.
[.........................]
But the above is a little beyond what a chromebook is.

That is an excellent description. I had picked up most of that information on my travels, but to see it clearly laid out in one place makes it all clearer somehow.

 

[stuartpaul]

Well, things have changed a bit (just a tiny bit mind). It now appears we want an imac (there goes the new planer thicknesser!). This is partly Dr Phill’s fault for pointing me towards the refurbished apples which has lead to further research as well as the fact that apparently ‘they look nice’.

I remain grateful for all the advice offered but have no doubt that whatever we choose someone will criticise and ask why. Part of our thought process is in the longevity aspect. It’s not going to get a hard life and it would appear that many go on for years and whilst it’s an expensive purchase it should (anecdotally at least) last us at least twice the lifetime of a ‘bog standard’ set up in our house so the cost can be justified (mostly). We are also already an apple house (phones, ipads and pods) so it’s probably a next logical step for us.

Thanks again and awaiting incoming!!!

 

[Billy_wizz]

Well, things have changed a bit (just a tiny bit mind). It now appears we want an imac (there goes the new planer thicknesser!). This is partly Dr Phill’s fault for pointing me towards the refurbished apples which has lead to further research as well as the fact that apparently ‘they look nice’.

I remain grateful for all the advice offered but have no doubt that whatever we choose someone will criticise and ask why. Part of our thought process is in the longevity aspect. It’s not going to get a hard life and it would appear that many go on for years and whilst it’s an expensive purchase it should (anecdotally at least) last us at least twice the lifetime of a ‘bog standard’ set up in our house so the cost can be justified (mostly). We are also already an apple house (phones, ipads and pods) so it’s probably a next logical step for us.

Thanks again and awaiting incoming!!!

As for longevity it's unlikely to last any longer than any comparatively priced machine but have what you want and enjoy! also apple have a tendency to keep there operating systems similar over all there platforms(or at least used to)

 

[Anthraquinone]

Startpaul
The critical thing to know is what do you want to use your computer for. I cannot see that in the above discussion but if it has been answered and you have sorted that out then OK you should be good to go.

Personally I would not touch Apple with a barge pole but that is just my point of view and many disagree. Whatever have fun with what you buy.

AQ

 

[DrPhill]

This is partly Dr Phill’s fault for pointing me towards the refurbished apples which has lead to further research as well as the fact that apparently ‘they look nice’.

Sorry.....

They do look nice (Apple are really a hardware manufacturer with an operating system). The Apple ecosystem is a bit of a walled garden but they play nice (and simply) within the garden. I love the all-in one lack of wires, and the 5k screen is so nice on the eyes for a whole day work. I prefer Linux for my 'laptop' , but my work-at-home or code-at-home system is the iMac. You can use the iMac to back up your iOS devices.

If you want windows apps then you can run inside macOS with parallels (for a price) or in bootcamp (choose at boot time) for the 'cost' of a windows licence (free if you want).

AFAIR memory is replaceable on the older iMacs, but check. I have a 27" and the memory is in a little compartment easily accessible on the back of the machine. Swapping the hard drive is possible but a pig looking at the videos. So (check these facts for your model and) go for a decent drive (ssd 500Gb) and plan to upgrade memory later if necessary.

Magic keyboard and mouse works well except when you have too may Bluetooth type things plugged in - I keep a wired set for emergencies.

 

[TRITON]

I normally avoid telling folk they should build their own, though it is a bit cheaper, you lose out on warranties, and theres always the worry that you build, close the case, hit start and naff al happens. WTF do you/they do then ? Too many things can go wrong, and you can even fry components, or damage them with static, because you didnt know this,that or t'other.

So a built system will always be better because its usually pretty much the same or slightly more of a price, and if it screws up, you have someone to phone to fix or replace.

8gb is fine for pretty much everything. 16gb is better obviously, but for most applications and even games(within reason) it runs them fine and dandy.
For general surfing the web, watching vids, listening to sounds the cheapest £200/300 is more than adequate.
If you want to add gaming its a bit more, but for 600 quid, that will give you a good system and run all the games at reasonable setting. Dont fall into the fanboy trap of frames per second and overclocking. Those guys whine and whine but in reality its not something that matters that much and they're playing off each other as to who can sound the best technical wizard, or some other computer god who knows all.sees all.

I game, but like to see those games as the developer intended, so settings maxed out, not for any gameplay requirements, but more the beauty the graphics can offer. The lighting, the sound, the textures. I've been playing computer games since computer games were invented, and owned and have built systems since when computers first became popular. Pentium 3 anyone ? and I'm utterly crap and still cant hit anything
Because of my requirements I on my last system opted for an Alienware system. Cost £900 in 2012, and i can still run all the games in ultra(max graphic settings) or very high, or high enough that most if not all the games are shown at their best. Tweaking is the order of the game there. Knowing whats best switched on and whats best switched off or lowered.
I'm toying with a new system, again for gaming, even though im pants at it, because my reasoning is that a basic gaming system, which is a Ram hungry and intense series of requirements will run anything else with ease. A bit like having a giant 3 phase thicknesser for diy tasks. No matter what you run through it, be that curly grained exotic, or basic poplar, it can do it all.

So If i buy a new system, it will be another Alienware, the most basic of basics with an upgrade to ram and graphics and liquid cooling, as I only really like online multiplayers which are quite intense and hard on the ram and graphics. It should cost about 1300
As said, my old system I bought in 2012. Its ran perfectly and without any problems whatsoever in all that time. That is an X51, and though it cost 900 ,8 years ago, I reckon ill get £300/350 for it second hand, such is its reputation.

 

[Droogs]

The machine you showed at the start is a "that'll do" machine as you have extra external storage. Lenovo's laptops are made by what was IBM's PC division which they bought in 2004. I have just put a T61p (2007) and a W500 (2009) to bed for the final time after long lives of service, first at home and then in the workshop. The W500 was great for CAD software as it had Nvidia Quadro gfx. Some say the Lenovo quality has slipped over the years but SWMBO has a Lenovo G70 and is very happy with it. She does a bit of video editing for her website and storytelling stuff and for her publishing and writing work, along with internet, zoom and youtube. She uses office and also publishing industry stuff on it as well without any problems.

On the other hand you could go the custom build and get the components to make your own and make your own box in wood, it is what I do for a living with PCs and games consoles. In the main the driving factor should be what do I want to do with it now and possibly over the next few years and get one accordingly. By the by my first computer was a self build christmas present, came in a polybag with a Xerox A4 page of instructions with hand written notes by the company owner) and took until new years eve to build in 1979 and let me have 4 years of fun with a ZX80.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Magic keyboard and mouse works well except when you have too many Bluetooth type things plugged in - I keep a wired set for emergencies.

Just an aside - my Bluetooth keyboard plays up once in a while, and I've given up on Bluetooth for the soundbar, but I do like the wireless mouse. I thought it had given up the ghost, but fiddling with it I noticed a glimmer of red light. I wonder ........... I got my Dremel which had a tiny grindstone in it and just touched the terminals and the ends of the battery - not a single problem since. It was just poor connections.

 

[Spectric]

Personally I would not touch Apple with a barge pole but that is just my point of view and many disagree. Whatever have fun with what you buy.

AQ

I would agree upto a point, I think they score highly with graphics and the photographic community using Lightroom and Photoshop, plus their monitors handle color calibration better but for general office use, Excel, Word and programing then the expense is harder to justify although with Windows 10, Microsoft is doing a good job of making people jump over to the Apple cart.

 

[stuartpaul]

Personally I would not touch Apple with a barge pole but that is just my point of view and many disagree. Whatever have fun with what you buy.

Do you mind if I ask why? I’ve asked people before and the response was about apple’s business methods rather than their hardware.

 

[Spectric]

To make spending easier,

in 2003

a 36 Gig SCSI drive was £104 and a pair of DDR400 512 meg Ram sticks was £112

a 200 Gig Maxtor Hard drive was £47

in 2008

a Gigabyte motherboard GA-MA790FX-DS5 AM2+ was £90 and a 500W ENERMAX MODULAR PSU was £55

So you get a lot more for the money now, £80 gets 16 gig of DDR4 Ram!

 

[Droogs]

Do you mind if I ask why? I’ve asked people before and the response was about apple’s business methods rather than their hardware.

Apple hardware is deliberately designed to make it almost impossible for you the end user to adapt or repair. They place form over function and as such are poorly ventilated and cooled. This causes a deliberately ignored result - part failure. their entire business model for devices is to build them cheap, over engineered to encourage planned failure in-service. As for their actual administrative and commercial business that leave a lot to be desired. I say this as a qualified Apple repair specialist. They even fleece their agents by designing their own screw head design and then charging their own technicians 70 bucks for the correct screwdriver. They are sharks parading as Indian Glass fish

 

[Michael C.]

thanks for that, I hadn't even thought, that they do track you, follow your searches, your purchases and who know what else; although I graduated in computer sciences with strong background in C, Dbase (now SQL) and a few other languages, I left that world because of the erratic income highs and lows; it's amazing the change from signing in to the Internet versus having to sign in to your home page to access the internet. I am conscious of these strange methods by companies in acquiring DATA, I have actually visited a restaurant, used my phone from the premises and when I got home and accessed the internet, I was met by questions asking me How was "X" restaurant, I didn't purchased anything.

 

[Padster]

At the risk of this becoming a “sharpening or political‘ thread
I will put my colours on the mast, I’m what some would call an Apple fan boy!
Now I’ll put some meat on the bones as well - I’ve worked in IT for over 30yrs, I started life as a hardware guy, mainframes, Novell netware, DOS, Windows, then moved to software and networks, now storage and business strategy, cloud etc.
i always used to build my own machines, but eventually got fed up of the bus mans holiday, and my wife bought me a MacBook Pro (MBP) - that was 10yrs ago and it finally gave up the ghost a month or two ago - in the interim I’ve had at least 4 work laptops, none as good as my MBP.
I have a new iMac not the M1 chip but a 21.5” i7 it’s a fantastic piece of kit and because I have phone, watch, iPad, tv they all link seamlessly I carry on surfing on doing documents on any device, I have a home NAS but also use family sharing and iCloud - the office equivalent apps have come on tremendously and are free and compatible....
Its horses for courses but I’ve never regretted the move, if you do move I hope it works for you too, already using part of the ecosystem should make it easier, also if you look on Apple site you can buy refurb from them too!

hth

Padster

 

[niemeyjt]

One point to add on used machines - they will have wear on moving things like fan bearings. Last summer I had to put a new cooling fan on my old Dell laptop after seven years. There will also be a build-up of dust that needs to be periodically removed - hopefully, a good used vendor will have done this for you.

 

[paulrbarnard]

At the risk of this becoming a “sharpening or political‘ thread
I will put my colours on the mast, I’m what some would call an Apple fan boy!
Now I’ll put some meat on the bones as well - I’ve worked in IT for over 30yrs, I started life as a hardware guy, mainframes, Novell netware, DOS, Windows, then moved to software and networks, now storage and business strategy, cloud etc.
i always used to build my own machines, but eventually got fed up of the bus mans holiday, and my wife bought me a MacBook Pro (MBP) - that was 10yrs ago and it finally gave up the ghost a month or two ago - in the interim I’ve had at least 4 work laptops, none as good as my MBP.
I have a new iMac not the M1 chip but a 21.5” i7 it’s a fantastic piece of kit and because I have phone, watch, iPad, tv they all link seamlessly I carry on surfing on doing documents on any device, I have a home NAS but also use family sharing and iCloud - the office equivalent apps have come on tremendously and are free and compatible....
Its horses for courses but I’ve never regretted the move, if you do move I hope it works for you too, already using part of the ecosystem should make it easier, also if you look on Apple site you can buy refurb from them too!

hth

Padster

People always mention office apps when talking about Macs as if it’s a negative. As you say the Apple applications (numbers, keynote and pages) are really very good. But the thing is Microsoft do make Office for Macs as well. Our company uses more Macs than PCs and Office is our default option for word processing, spreadsheets and presentations.
The reason we use Macs rather than PC is down to durability and flexibility. We have found that the Apple HW outlasts the equivalent Pc hardware by a significant margin. Having run like this for over ten years we have seen from our IT support that we have way less support issues with the Apple systems, it’s in the order of three times less. We are a SW company and every Mac has Parallels installed so the engineers can run different target OS environments for local testing. My work computer has three versions of Windows, five versions of OS-X and three releases of Ubuntu in VM’s for testing and the odd application that only runs in a specific environment, like 32bit Windows 7 as an example. People gloss over the a windows SW compatibility issues, they do exist.
Disclosure: I’ve been an Apple user since the iie and have had pretty much every version between there and the M1, which I don’t have yet as I’m waiting for the big boy M chips to arrive.
If someone wants a reliable personal use computer the lowest problem system is from Apple. In general “they just work”. I’ve swapped many relatives over to Apple after they had problems using Windows systems. As someone working with computers I was always the person they called when things didn’t work. Those calls become much less frequent once they are on Apple.
A final point, no actually they are not more expensive when you consider life cost and the better generally better build quality. You can even buy the Mac Mini as a very low entry cost option if you want to compare to low end PC. I have a 15 year old Mac Mini running my network storage at home. It’s been running continuously for all that time (baring power outages and moving house twice).