New circular saw - plunge or "normal"?

[Windy*miller]

I've got a few projects coming up which are going to involve cutting a reasonable amount of sheet material (18mm MDF and 12mm ply for bedside cabinets and some shelving) and after some mucking about it's clear that my twenty quid circular saw isn't up to the job. Further to (good) advice received on an earlier thread I've replaced the blade and made a zero clearance baseplate etc, which did help but the thing just isn't up to it. As an example the blade is 2mm out of parallel with the edge of the baseplate - I know I can fix that with the plate I've made but it's an indication of how it's put together.

I planned just to buy a better quality saw, but the other day I found out about plunge saw / guide rail systems and wondered if they're sufficiently better in terms of speed and accuracy to justify the extra dosh.

One factor in this is my own skill level which is intermediate at best. If a slightly more expensive setup would make it significantly easier for me to get a really good result I'd be happy to take that route. I'm sure there are people on this forum who could do what I want to do with a handsaw, but I'm not one of them!

 

[woof]

Others far more competent than me will be along to comment shortly, but as a beginner hobbyist, I moved from a B&Q special (McCallister) to a festool TS55 and was amazed with the difference. The festool has a neat guard to reduce/eliminate splinters at the cut, but the rail is really a great bonus for cutting straight lines. The best thing would be to see if someone nearby you has one you can go and see working in the flesh, because it is not cheap! But for what you are planning to do, sounds just what you need.

 

[chippy1970]

I have the ts55 for sheet material etc and i use a normal makita the 5703 i think, for everyday stuff. I only got the plunge saw in 2007 so only had it 3 years it is great and really speeds things up. I have how ever managed with a normal circular saw and a straight edge for the last 20 odd years of my professional life.

Only you will know if you really need a plunge saw. You will find they both have different jobs they are suited for.

Chris

 

[woodsworth]

I use both. I have a festool 75 something or other and a dewalt circular saw. The dewalt reminds me of the makita in shape and comfort but was cheeper. I've had it for 6-7 years and wouldn't be without it.

As for the Festool i wouldn't be without it either. But that doesn't mean i'd go festool again per say. I haven't used the Dewalt or the Makita plunge and i'm sure there are other ones out there. At the time i bought it plunge was a new thing to me and could see the possibilities and bought it on an impulse. It was only after i seen other makes of the same tool.

I usually use my circular for solid stock and i use the plunge for sheet stock.

One factor in this is my own skill level which is intermediate at best. If a slightly more expensive setup would make it significantly easier for me to get a really good result I'd be happy to take that route.

It is my opinion that a plunge with a rail has made a huge difference in my work. I'm able to make cupboards on site with little or no difference to shop made ones, which i wouldn't of attempted before. So I think it would make a difference for anyone. Just an opinion though.

 

[Windy*miller]

Thanks for all this, guys.

It sounds as though the plunge saws (the festool at least, although I'm not wedded to festool in particular at this stage) do what they claim to do. What I don't want to be doing is using a standard circular saw and a straight edge and then end up having to use a router to put a properly finished edge on the cut panels. That way madness lies I think!

 

[gasman]

There is one extra bonus of the plunge saws like the Festool - dust collection. If you use a vaccuum (doesn;t have to be the over-priced Festool one - I have a T30 which works just as well as my Festool Midi - and use the splinterguard as well, you can literally turn the TS55 or 75 on in someon's front room and it makes no dust at all - and the finish with a fine blade needs nothing else doing to it.
Regards
Mark

 

[ByronBlack]

IMO The TS55 is as good as it gets - Superb cut, amazing build quality, very accurate, great dust collection, easy to use, and has a full system behind it if you wish to expand in the future. My biggest mistake was selling my festool setup (not that I realised that at the time, but as I have had many different setups since, I realised just how amazing the TS55 is - and festool in general).

 

[Matt_S]

Why does a plunge and rail produce a better cut than normal circular saw and rail?

 

[awkwood]

If your looking for a premium quality saw the mafell mt55c is a very good choice

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... rc=froogle

I have been very impressed with mine, it cuts 2" oak with ease and with the long tracks joined together i have edge jointed 15' long 2" thick table tops very accuratly

 

[petermillard]

Why does a plunge and rail produce a better cut than normal circular saw and rail?

It doesn't; a cheap circ. saw with a good blade, a home-made guide-rail and some masking tape and you can get excellent cuts, even in hi-gloss material - I've done it, as I'm sure have many others here. But a plunge saw and guide-rail does it a lot more easily, more quickly, and arguably more safely (I'm thinking dust extraction as much as sharp spinning things, here.)

Just about the only downside to them is that they're relatively pricey, but if you're going to get the use out of one, then it may as well be something that's a pleasure to use, no?

Cheers, Pete

 

[Oryxdesign]

Why does a plunge and rail produce a better cut than normal circular saw and rail?

The Festool has a chip guard both sides of the blade. You can make a home made guide from mdf and have an effective(ish) chip guard on the left side.

S

 

[Windy*miller]

Matt_S wrote:
Why does a plunge and rail produce a better cut than normal circular saw and rail?

petermillard wrote:
It doesn't; a cheap circ. saw with a good blade, a home-made guide-rail and some masking tape and you can get excellent cuts

What I'm finding with my cheap saw is that even with a carefully made baseplate, a decent blade and a rigid straight edge I have great difficulty avoiding a bit of "wandering". I think I've made a good cut but then I put the edge against a straight edge and there's plenty of daylight. I love the idea of a saw which is just locked into a straight cut. I buy tools rarely and carefully but I think that this might be a good investment. And I guess a good one would always be reasonably saleable if I find I don't use it enough.

 

[ByronBlack]

Matt_S wrote:
Why does a plunge and rail produce a better cut than normal circular saw and rail?

petermillard wrote:
It doesn't; a cheap circ. saw with a good blade, a home-made guide-rail and some masking tape and you can get excellent cuts

What I'm finding with my cheap saw is that even with a carefully made baseplate, a decent blade and a rigid straight edge I have great difficulty avoiding a bit of "wandering". I think I've made a good cut but then I put the edge against a straight edge and there's plenty of daylight. I love the idea of a saw which is just locked into a straight cut. I buy tools rarely and carefully but I think that this might be a good investment. And I guess a good one would always be reasonably saleable if I find I don't use it enough.

I got 80% of the value back when I sold my festool, being a premium brand in high demand, they really do keep their value. But, if you are making anything of a decent size or frequency, it'll soon pay for itself.

 

[SNight]

Just get your handsaw and plane out!!!

 

[petermillard]

What I'm finding with my cheap saw is that even with a carefully made baseplate, a decent blade and a rigid straight edge I have great difficulty avoiding a bit of "wandering"...

Yep. Add 'more precisely' to "more easily, more quickly etc..."

I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who's bought a plunge saw/guide rail combo and regretted it - and as has been said, they're premium products, so easy enough to move on if needs be.

Cheers, Pete

 

[TheTiddles]

What I'm finding with my cheap saw is that even with a carefully made baseplate, a decent blade and a rigid straight edge I have great difficulty avoiding a bit of "wandering". I think I've made a good cut but then I put the edge against a straight edge and there's plenty of daylight. I love the idea of a saw which is just locked into a straight cut. I buy tools rarely and carefully but I think that this might be a good investment. And I guess a good one would always be reasonably saleable if I find I don't use it enough.

I found exactly the same and recently bought one of these with some extra guide rails http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Mafe ... 807319.htm it's a lot of cash but it's just so good it makes you smile every time you use it!

Aidan

 

[cutting solutions]

are you sure its not partially caused by the quality of the blade being used?

 

[OPJ]

If you're willing to consider something slightly cheaper than the Festool saw then, Makita's plunge saw has been on special offer for a while. I don't know how it compares to the Festool and others (I imagine it's somewhere on a par with DeWalt and the other 'competitors' to the TS55) but Makita stuff is generally very well made and built to last.

 

[ByronBlack]

The other cheaper route would to go with a Eureka Zone setup, it comes with rails and a base that fit to your existing saw, it'll give you a similar level of performance. But you will have to import it from the states.

 

[Windy*miller]

are you sure its not partially caused by the quality of the blade being used?

Yes. The first thing I did was put a good quality blade on. As I've said earlier, it may be partially caused by my lack of skill, but if it solves that problem I'll be pleased.

There aren't many people saying "don't buy a plunge saw" here! A (possibly) wise saying I once read was to "always buy the best tool you can afford, because that way you only cry once".

I found exactly the same and recently bought one of these with some extra guide rails http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Mafe ... 807319.htm it's a lot of cash but it's just so good it makes you smile every time you use it!

Aidan

Now that is an unusual looking bit of kit. It's on youtube at www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Jng09z3YQ - the flexible guide comes on at about 2 minutes.