New bandsaw: setup and expectations

[space.dandy]

Hi all,

I've just bought a new bandsaw, an Axminster HBS250N. I have never used a bandsaw before, so I have no experience by which to judge the setup or finished quality of the saw. Additionally, there are some things which look wrong to me, on which I'd like the opinion of experienced users.

The bandsaw came with a blade pre-installed, and I have followed the Axminster how-to on machine setup as closely as possible.

These are the things which look wrong to me when spinning the wheels during the setup:

• The blade oscillates front-to-back by about 1mm;
• The blade oscillates laterally by about 2mm; and
• The blade has a twist which throws it out of parallel with the fence (about 8mm over the length of a UJK Bandsaw Buddy).

Is any of that cause for concern? If so, is it a problem with the machine, blade or my setup? The movement of the blade means that there is a larger gap between the bearings and the blade than there should be, according to the guides.

I've attached a couple of photos showing a test cut. Any comments on the quality are most welcome. Also, I'd be grateful if someone could share example photos showing the quality that can be achieved with a well setup machine, for comparison.

 

[mbartlett99]

I have the same model of bandsaw and that cut quality does not look right at all. I'd suggest your blade might be wonky from your description.

 

[PAC1]

The sideways oscillation is a problem. First are the guides set close say a couple of sheets of paper clearance. Second is the tension right. Not by reference to any gauge but is it in tune or can you press the blade with reasonable pressure over by say 10mm or less anymore and it is not adequately tensioned.
The Bandsaw buddy is of no assistance whatsoever on a bandsaw. The fence may need adjusting once you have the blade running true. I assume it is a Axi bandsaw blade. I suggest you get Tuff saw blades asap.

 

[Roxie]

A couple of suggestions which may help to make your bandsaw more user friendly.
Buy and use Tuff saw blades, as mentioned above. Look at the video on YouTube by Snodgrass (can't think of his first name) it will help you set up your bandsaw. I viewed it and it helped to make my machine run more "sweetly" and give consistent results.
Enjoy your new machine
John

 

[Lazurus]

Mark Duginske is the band saw guru, his book is brilliant, Google may show some videos to, once you understand about tracking, correct blade and guides the band saw is the best tool in the shop, but, like most things has to be set up correctly. as said good quality blades are a must.

 

[space.dandy]

The sideways oscillation is a problem. First are the guides set close say a couple of sheets of paper clearance. Second is the tension right. Not by reference to any gauge but is it in tune or can you press the blade with reasonable pressure over by say 10mm or less anymore and it is not adequately tensioned.

I can't get the guides or thrust bearing close enough without them making contact with the blade, due to the oscillations.

I get about 5mm deflection when pressing the 'offside' (the side that goes up) towards the 'working side' (the side that goes down and cuts the wood) -- apologies for the poor terminology, hopefully you understand what I mean. It's difficult to be accurate, since the blade is so close to the case that I can't get a finger in.

I've just had another look and both top and bottom wheels seem to have slight high and low spots. Would you expect them to be perfectly circular?

The Bandsaw buddy is of no assistance whatsoever on a bandsaw. The fence may need adjusting once you have the blade running true. I assume it is a Axi bandsaw blade. I suggest you get Tuff saw blades asap.

My saw takes a 1790mm blade, which seems to be a bit shorter than is commonly available. Can I safely fit a longer blade? I assume the only consequence is the loss of tensioning adjustment?

 

[space.dandy]

I have the same model of bandsaw and that cut quality does not look right at all. I'd suggest your blade might be wonky from your description.

Thanks, that's encouraging to know. I assume you're not using the stock blade?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

http://www.tuffsaws.co.uk/index.php?rou ... uct_id=124

Here's one 1790mm to start with.

 

[mbartlett99]

When you mention that your blade had a twitch it rang alarm bells. Buy a tuffsaws and give it another shot.

 

[space.dandy]

http://www.tuffsaws.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=124

Here's one 1790mm to start with.

Thanks. I was actually just reading the buying guide on their website. I didn't realise that they will make blades to suit your machine for no additional cost, which is brilliant!

 

[PAC1]

Definitely should not be high and low spots on the Wheels. Is this the cause of the oscillation. You can check by turning the wheels by hand and seeing where the blade is in reference to the guide. If it is I would send the machine back.
Are there tyres on the Wheels?

 

[space.dandy]

Definitely should not be high and low spots on the Wheels. Is this the cause of the oscillation. You can check by turning the wheels by hand and seeing where the blade is in reference to the guide. If it is I would send the machine back.
Are there tyres on the Wheels?

Both wheels have tyres, which interestingly aren't attached to the rims (glued or otherwise). Looking at it more closely, it doesn't have high spots, but each wheel has a low spot/region; it's difficult to tell exactly, but I think the low spots are on the tyres rather than the rims.

I wonder if the low spots were caused by the saw being sat in storage for a long time with the blade under tension? Perhaps taking them off and soaking them in hot water might help restore them.

These spots are definitely contributing to the problem, but I think there is also a blade problem making it worse. I've ordered some TuffSaw blades, as recommended by others here.

 

[stuartpaul]

Can I also suggest you let Axminster know you've got a problem? They are (usually) incredibly helpful with aftersales service.

You really shouldn't have to do much fiddling on a brand new machine.

I also wouldn't do too much 'tweaking' until you speak to them (they may just swap) as you may affect the warranty?

 

[space.dandy]

Thank you, I know I should. Being inexperienced with bandsaws I wanted to be sure I had a real problem, and wasn't just expecting too much from what is a 'hobby' tool. I've spoken to them about a different tool and I agree, they are helpful.

 

[Ttrees]

High and low spots on the tires are not OK
This will be evident if you use the machine for long enough to leave a sawdust
track on the machine, so less to talk about at the Axminster counter
Get it replaced, as the three R's of retail state
Repair, Replace or Refund.
You deserve a blade for your troubles, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that part.

Best of luck
Tom

 

[sunnybob]

Tuffsaws are definitely better blades (maybe the best) but an axminster will still cut.
Check the weld on the blade, maybe there is a spot of weld sticking proud at the back. If so thats a fault and axminster will replace it. If theres any twist on the weld thats also a fault.

Then watch these videos a couple times and use them as a GUIDE. They are nor gospel, there are other opinions, but this is what works for vast majority of bandsaw users, me included.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWa ... rkingshows


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8zZuDo ... Woodworker
And as already said, axminster WILL reply to your queries and offer any help they can, up to and including sending an engineer if all else fails.
On the above comment, I have had vouchers from axminster for my troubles.

 

[space.dandy]

Tuffsaws are definitely better blades (maybe the best) but an axminster will still cut.
Check the weld on the blade, maybe there is a spot of weld sticking proud at the back. If so thats a fault and axminster will replace it. If theres any twist on the weld thats also a fault.

Then watch these videos a couple times and use them as a GUIDE. They are nor gospel, there are other opinions, but this is what works for vast majority of bandsaw users, me included.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWa ... rkingshows


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8zZuDo ... Woodworker
And as already said, axminster WILL reply to your queries and offer any help they can, up to and including sending an engineer if all else fails.
On the above comment, I have had vouchers from axminster for my troubles.

Thanks for the links. I've seen the first video before, but the second was new and interesting. The 'flutter' seen at 4:19 is exactly what my saw is doing.

 

[Tasky]

I've just had another look and both top and bottom wheels seem to have slight high and low spots. Would you expect them to be perfectly circular?

If you're looking face-on at the wheel, it should be a perfectly round O shape, with no flat spots like a D.

If you mean you're looking edge-on, the tyre should be slightly rounded like a motorcycle tyre, not flat like a car tyre. This is referred to as being crowned, with the higher spot in the middle of the tyre. Generally people advise seating the blade so the gullet runs along the very top of the crown.

The Bandsaw buddy is of no assistance whatsoever on a bandsaw.

Not true - It gives you something to throw in frustration, without damaging your other tools...

Repair, Replace or Refund.
You deserve a blade for your troubles, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that part.

Worth phoning up Axminster and having a word, anyway. You may need to email them some photos or video (mobile phone is fine) of the problems, but they WILL get it sorted and will likely bend over backwards to Repair, Replace or Refund.
Also, feel free to hold your breath a little... My 310 bandsaw had to be replaced, for which they sent their own man-in-a-van to drop off the new one while collecting the old.

The replacement saw came with three complimentary blades of different widths, a Bandsaw Buddy™, a £10 gift card and lashings of apologies from several of the Axy guys!!

 

[PAC1]

I would contact Axi and ask for a replacement machine. The tyres need to be in good order if they are deformed that is an issue.

 

[Alexam]

Most of the problems have been mentioned, particularly the flutter caused bu the tension not being correct. The Alex Snodgrass method is one of the best around and you should be getting muchbetter results.

When someone new to bandsaws has concerns, I usually send the following, some of which you already have seen, but perhaps it may help.

GET THE BEST TUNING FROM A BANDSAW 'Alex Snodgrass of Carter Industries has an excellent video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU on a tune up method that works well. His updated version also here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxVyKsbuwZQ
The following video may help some owners with a Record BS400, but it is similar to most machines blade changes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-aHHxEKw6g
Blades can run and cut without any guides whatsoever (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SHG3R2mEMM) as long as the machine is tuned correctly. This is how the blade should be running BEFORE the guides are brought into play on your machine, so that they can 'bump back' the blade should it wander, so please dont get guides near the blade before you know it is running clear and staying in the same place.
CHECKING BLADE TENSION - Flutter test Video's -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chyo9chuwJs and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8zZuDosSy0
Tuning a bandsaw is only that and nothing else. If you really want to get the very best use of your bandsaw on an ongoing basis, then the Steve Maskery DVD's will show you far more and they are a real investment that you should own. http://www.workshopessentials.com/shop/ '.
BUY BEST BLADES FROM ..... http://www.tuffsaws.co.uk/
TUNE WITH SOUND ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPyc2iDQnOA&vl ( UNPROVEN )
Whenever you have put a blade on a bandsaw, ask yourself the following questions:-
....... are you managing to get the blade running freely and central on the top wheel ( without guides or rear bearing near the blade ) with the gullet of the teeth in the centre of the top wheel ? The exception would be with wider blades, as 1/2" and wider may not sit 'centred' on the top wheel).
That's the first priority before closing in guides and thrust bearings. The blade will not be in the centre of the lower wheel as the manufacturer allows the top wheel to be adjusted and tilt to allow tuning.
Is the blade running vertical 90° to the table alignment, front and back as well as side to side?
Once the guides and bearings have been brought to the correct position, (not touching when the blade runs freely) is the blade remaining where it should be when run under power and switched on and off checking several times ?

Are you sure that the tension is correct, or as near as it can be. Each blade could be different, even if it is the same depth, so needs to be checked whenever changing blades.

If all these things are correct, then you should get a true cut unless you are trying to cut the wood too fast and it's filling the teeth with sawdust and pushing the blade out of line and see if teeth are damaged in any way.
Finally, if you have used the blade before, make sure the teeth are clean, as sawdust will stick in the teeth gullet. Cleaning with a wire brush will result in a far better cut before starting a new job, but certainly on a regular basis.

After checking all above, if you do not get good results, then get Axminster involved to correct it. Also, depending where you are situated, perhaps someone with bandsaw knowledge would be prepare to come and see if they can help you. I would if near me, South Birmingham, but no idea where you are.
Good luck
Malcolm