Nail Clenching

[SeanG]

Hi all,

I'm nailing TGV boards to a frame for my garage doors, I know that I should clench the nails and am wondering if there is a special technique, in my head I've got:

1) Hammer in nail, bend protruding point over something (bigger nail??) and hammer back into the frame.

2) Hammer in nail with big piece of iron underneath to magically bend the nail back into the frame.

3) Boat builders have a clenching iron which is held on the back to bend the nail back round, I think this only works with the softer copper nails and as I need to lay the frames down to do the hammering holding anything on the back will be impractible.

Any suggestions?

 

[George_N]

What about using ring shank nailsif you are worried about them pulling out, or screws?

 

[head clansman]

Hi seanG

The proper way to nail your boards on is nail in all nails first then punch in the heads below the exterior face then turn door over on the interior side with all nails protruding place Punch at base of nail and punch them flat along the grain into the wood when this is done punch the tips into the surface of the timber so now you have the nails inside the timber and holding the door together very firmly good luck

 

[SeanG]

Hi George,

Thanks for the reply,

I was going to use lost heads just because it's what all the references I read say to use. They do gloss over the clenching though

I'd prefer to avoid screws from the front for security reasons, but after spending quite a long time (not SWIMBO's words) on the frames (pegged M&T's) I'm keen to avoid a bad mistake at the board fitting stage.

What is the likleyhood of those ring shanks pulling out?

 

[head clansman]

Hi seanG

I forgot to say yrs ago we use to use wire nail but these has quite a large head to them so as not to have to fill quite a large hole once they were punch under the surface of the wood we use to flatten the heads of the wire nails first , so if you got a blog of iron or a metal workers vice if you hold a nail up in front of your eyes and look at the head it like a tee shape we use to flatten them with a hammer both side of the nail to turn them upward like to ears so when punch into the wood the hole wasn't as big and not so much filling afterwards, just a small tip.

you can use ring shack nails , also some have glue on the shanks so when driven it it bonds to the wood might be worth a try experiment on some odd bits of timber

 

[SeanG]

Thanks Martin,

It seems that there's a choice of nails as well as how to use them :shock:

Why is it that the simple things aren't easy and the easy things aren't simple?? :wink:

 

[tim]

What do you use below the door to stop the nails puching through into that surface and then weakening the joint as you prise it away

Cheers

Tim

 

[dickm]

What do you use below the door to stop the nails puching through into that surface and then weakening the joint as you prise it away

Tim

An old flat iron?????
Or one of those miniature Record anvils that were being sold off a few years back?

(have used both )

 

[head clansman]

Hi Tim

What do you use below the door to stop the nails punching through into that surface and then weakening the joint as you prise it away


If i understand you correctly you mean to (stop you nailing into the bench surface below) normally just a few pieces of off cut timber about the width of the door one placed under the top end of door the other placed under the bottom edge of the door causing a space between underside of door and bench surface normally just a little thicker than the length of nail that will come though the underside of the door

 

[tim]

Hi Tim

What do you use below the door to stop the nails punching through into that surface and then weakening the joint as you prise it away


If i understand you correctly you mean to (stop you nailing into the bench surface below) normally just a few pieces of off cut timber about the width of the door one placed under the top end of door the other placed under the bottom edge of the door causing a space between underside of door and bench surface normally just a little thicker than the length of nail that will come though the underside of the door

But does that not just cause the door to bounce as you hammer and thereby prevent the brace and door planks from drawing up tight? Or does that not actually matter?

Cheers

Tim

 

[head clansman]

hi Tim

But does that not just cause the door to bounce as you hammer and thereby prevent the brace and door planks from drawing up tight? Or does that not actually matter.

not really on this type of door you have a top rail, bottom and middle rail place the spacers pieces of timber under them , you can if you wish place extra spacers under the braces as well, but as you know you will nail into these which is no real problem if you do don't try and remove them till you punch the nails into the external face first then remove any timber spacer that may have got nail to the back of the door , after that do as above

 

[SeanG]

#-o conducted a test with some of the offcuts, it's a 32mm frame with 12mm TGV all in pine.

I'd read somewhere that the nail should be overlength by 5mm so bought 3*50mm lostheads.

Results of the test

1) a 3mm nail will split 12mm pine with ease
2) a 6mm protrusion is not enough for a 3mm nail, when trying to clench it over it just pushes back out the way it came
3) the pine frame doesn't provide enough support to the nail when trying to clench it and the whole thing looks a total mess on the inside.

I think I'll try a thinner and longer nail.

Good job it was only a test piece! (hammer)

 

[9fingers]

Oval nails should help reduce the splitting and will bend over more easily for a given CSA than a round nail.

Bob

 

[Paul Chapman]

I've made quite a few braced and ledged gates and doors over the years. Rather than nailing (which has always seemed to me to be a rather crude way of doing it), I've always used bolts and nuts - the bolts with a domed head and no slot or spanner flats for security. Provided you drill slightly over-size holes to allow for expansion and contraction and line up all the holes, it can make for a very neat job which looks nice. Never had a failure yet

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Streepips]

I just noticed the mention of how 3mm nail splits 12mm board on a test piece. Is this the thickness that you will be using for the garage doors?
What is the overall size of each door? There is a formulae for what thickness stuff to use on any given size of door that should be used....12mm seems woefully thin for a garage door.
As for clenching, the nail should protude between 6 and 12 mm then supported on the head side with something hard. ( sledgehammer head is ideal once you get the hang of placing it and balacing the door) the the nail hammered over and then the point hammered further over to form the "clench"

 

[SeanG]

The doors are on a sidways sliding track and four leaves are being used to span the opening. The 12mm TGV is being nailed to a 32mm frame comprising of 2 stiles and 3 rails held together with pegged M&T's.

I bought a wide selection of fixings on Saunday and had a big old practise. The winner ending up being 3mm thick Brad's with a 3.5mm pilot.

I've taken some pics but have to rush off to a meeting now

 

[Pekka Huhta]

Coming in a bit late, but here it goes.

The fast way, requiring some skill: hammer in the nails so that the nail protrudes about 4-5x of its diameter. The nail head stays proud of the surface at this stage. Turn the door around and bend the nals parallel to the surface. Turn the door around second tome, hammer the nails all the way through and clench the L-shaped nailtips back to the wood.

The other way, requiring a tool: toss a triangular file in a fire or a charcoal grill or anything hot enough to anneal it. Hammer the nails all the way through and bend them back to wood, using the file to kink the nail tips.

No matter which way you do it, use a heavy hammer on the nailhead side to prevent nails backing up from the wood when clenching.

If I would be doing that I would hold the door upright between your legs hinge side down. That way you can hold the heavy hammer (forge hammer, sledgehammer or the back of an axe) on the nail head and use the other to hit the nails. This works better on the first method as you don't have to have a third hand holding the file On the second method you either have to have a friend to hold the big hammer on the nailheads or then use the hammer as an anvil under the door, which is tedious.

I've seen a man clenching a boat this way with old style galvanized boat nails. It was a joy to look, two or three whacks and the nail was through about 8-10 mm, one whack and it was parallel to the surface, one tap on the nailhead and it was fully seated and then a few careful taps and the nail was clenched. Took less than explaining it. He had a hammer on both hands and used them both, leaving the heavier hammer only to hold the nail when getting it started.

Pekka