Mystery gauge

[AndyT]

I recently bought a selection of sash mitre templates, and in with them was this item, which I can't identify.

It's about five inches long, hardwood (possibly beech) and neatly made with an owner's name stamped on. It's planed into a cross shape, with the internal size of each arm being about 7/8". The ends are cut at an angle, which is about 1:4 or 75 degrees.

.

I guess it could sit over a small moulding and allow you to saw or pare the ends to the right compound angle, but don't know why. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

[Modernist]

Dovetail marker

 

[barkwindjammer]

A journeymans 'sample' ? :?

 

[AndyT]

Dovetail gauge?
Well, possibly, though the angle is steeper than usual, but why make it so complicated? The common trad dovetail gauge is much simpler, like this:

Sample?
Of what! It's a lot of work to plane four rebates round a piece. I have never seen anything else this shape.

I know it's wrong to assume that things found together would always belong together (I've seen mystery tool threads describing tin openers) but I want this to be something to do with making windows, or joining mouldings somehow. But the angle is wrong.

Someone must have seen one like it, surely?

 

[Jacob]

DT marker looks a good guess. Quite a practical design. Nothing wrong with the angle. 1:4 is quite common. It depends on what sort of work Ellis was up to. Is it same both ends?

 

[Alf]

I have no idea, but evidently it was a situation where that angle might be required on work that couldn't be held any old way (hence all four positions available) which, I agree, suggests mouldings; and was important or repeated enough to waste away all that wood to make all four rebates. All I can vaguely think is that not all windows are necessarily rectangular. Have you a copy of Ellis' Modern Practical Joinery about your person? Some pretty complicated stuff in there that might hold an answer.

 

[AndyT]

DT marker looks a good guess. Quite a practical design. Nothing wrong with the angle. 1:4 is quite common. It depends on what sort of work Ellis was up to. Is it same both ends?

Yes, same angle both ends, and cut so that the ends are parallel. And yes, the angle would be ok for carcase dovetails.

Alf, I've flicked through my copy of Ellis's book, but not found any connection.

 

[Jacob]

.... And yes, the angle would be ok for carcase dovetails.....

OK for drawer sides too. No need to look any further IMHO, but you never know!
Can we have a photo of the sash mitre templates? I don't know what these are.

PS found some here http://www.oldtools.com/category/Wooden-Tools-5/rec/50

and here

 

[AndyT]

Hi Jacob - while you were editing your post, I had the camera out!
New thread here.

 

[bugbear]

I have no idea, but evidently it was a situation where that angle might be required on work that couldn't be held any old way (hence all four positions available) which, I agree, suggests mouldings; and was important or repeated enough to waste away all that wood to make all four rebates. All I can vaguely think is that not all windows are necessarily rectangular. Have you a copy of Ellis' Modern Practical Joinery about your person? Some pretty complicated stuff in there that might hold an answer.

It's far too big and heavy for dovetails, and marking dovetails doesn't need that 4 way, double ended complication. Factor in an "unlikely" angle (albeit theoretically possible) angle, and we can discount DT marker.

The paring guide idea remains, and seems plausible, although normal paring guides "wrap" around the workpiece to provide support on both edges of a wide chisel, giving good control. This one would provide less guidance, but perhaps that's all that could be had, in whatever (unknown) circumstance this tool was made for.

Does the object show any texture or pattern in the handling marks, or tool marks from usage? Is there any localised wear?

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

.
It's far too big and heavy for dovetails,

7/8" - perfect for drawer sides

and marking dovetails doesn't need that 4 way, double ended complication.

Not complicated at all. You'd make up the cross structured piece (easy) and then saw off the ends at the required angle or angles. You could change the angle by sawing off a bit more. 4 sides very handy if you want to do a 100% mark up in a 'hand tool' but 'continuous production mode' environment. Bear in mind we don't know what Ellis was making - it might have been a tool for one particular repeat job

Factor in an "unlikely" angle

Not unlikely at all - if you have a look at some old furniture you can see for yourself

... and we can discount DT marker.

DT marker most likely by far, perhaps for a job worked to a spec (not freehand as most DTs were). But yes, it could be something else entirely!

 

[AndyT]

[
Does the object show any texture or pattern in the handling marks, or tool marks from usage? Is there any localised wear?

BugBear

Not really. There were some mitre templates in the same batch which have obviously suffered from accidental paring, but nothing like that on this one. Nor any evidence of it being used to guide a saw. (Having the extra bit sticking up would let you rest a saw against it, but that seems an unlikely requirement in what was presumably a professional's tool.)