Myford ML8 and general turning questions.

[skeetstar]

Folks I have recently bought a Myford ML8 to try to add turning to the very short list of my woodworking skills.
To date I have had some results that I am absolutely delighted with, and others that leave me very disappointed.

I have questions about the lathe and its set up, and turning in general.. I've looked at dozens of youtube videos, but often they leave me with more questions than answers.

So, net is, .. is there an experienced ML8 user out there who would be willing to correspond with me and answer questions as they come to mind. If there is and you are local to Warwickshire, I'll gladly buy you a few pints when circumstances allow. If not then I will make a few donations to charity of your choice.

Anyone?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Why not ask the questions here? There's nothing that's really specific to the ML8.

 

[Lazurus]

Wot he said, also beware of some youtube instruction it can be misleading or downright dangerous you will get better, more accurate advice on here.

 

[skeetstar]

Okeedoke,

some off the top of my head for now.

The lathe...

The tailstock is a millimetre or two out of alignment with the headstock. I understand that this is one of the criticisms of this lathe, but does it matter that much? I'm guessing not., but if I did want to align it better, is this fixable?

The manual that I read, says that on no account should the bearings be greased. Why is this? When I got it, the bearings were packed with grease, so I cleaned that out and used oil per the manual. Some youtube vids say oil every day, the manual says oil every week. I guess the manual is right, but anyone got any experience of having to oil it more often?

When I tighten up the 'quill lock' it has some but not a completely effective lock. The tailstock can rotate loose and start to vibrate. My plan is to get it all apart and see whet the problem is, but anyone else experience this? Is it fixable?

Lathe speed. So far I have turned only small items. The lathe is set on its fastest setting. 2850 RPM I think. Again I've been told that it should be set as fast as it can go.. IS this good advice? I simply dont know.

Tools

A large selection of tools came with the lathe. Most are Sorby. There are some skews however, made out of old files. I've read that one should be careful with such repurposed tools as the steel may be more prone to fracture. Is this right? Should I get rid or will they be perfectly OK to use?

Sharpness.. I Know, I know.... my plane irons and chisels are sharpened so that I could shave with them. I'm told that turning tools dont need to be anywhere near as sharp. So how sharp do they need to be? and does sharpness have much effect on the finish I'd get?

I plan to go on a turning course in West Sussex, but with C19, I'm not sure when the school will be running them again.

 

[marcros]

I believe that the use of oil is to flush out any rubbish from the bearings. Now, depending on the oil nipple, you may need to get a special oiler. I have just had to get one myself for a vintage tractor, and it was described as the same as for a Myford lathe. If so, it is made by wanner and is the model 300-2. Others are available but very mixed reviews about leaking.

tools from files are ok if heat treated correctly and dodgy at best if not. potentially dangerous. I would put them to one side and use the branded ones. Sharpening is a whole discussion, I use my proedge and go to 240g for most stuff. some tools benefit from going a little finer. You need a sharpening system, stones or scary sharp won't work. it may be a simple grinder with suitable wheel, or may be one of several alternative systems.

speed- you will know. as fast as you can safely go because you get a better cut. if it is too fast, it will vibrate badly, and will scare you. small items like pens, go flat out, but reduce to 1000-1500 for sanding. for larger items, start slowly and as it becomes more in balance you can increase. this is where variable speed is useful but it isnt essential at all. have a play with something small. see the cut quality at the lowest setting, and through the other speeds. carefully get an out of balance blank, start it slow. try it carefully on the next setting and you will feel the vibration increase- you dont need to try it on the fastest setting to know how it will feel.

 

[Cabinetman]

Hi Skeetstar, I have had my ML8 from new, that was about 40 years ago, I have never needed to lubricate the bearings. Okay it hasn’t been used a great lot I will admit. The tailstock on mine is level in a vertical plane,up and down, and there is some lateral movement so that it is possible to tighten it up out of line, one to two mm but it really has never caused me a problem. I don’t like the sound of the vibration loosening the tailstock, that certainly isn’t right.
I’m sorry but I don’t know what a quill lock is, I can only presume it’s the way you tighten up the tailstock or the tools rest. They appear simple enough to me, from memory they are just a shaped piece of metal that grips the inside of the bed/ tube when the lever is tightened . I’m sorry I can’t be of any more help, turning isn’t one of my big things I’m afraid. Ian
Edit pic of mine for the people who may not know what one looks like.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

^^^^ what Marcross said. The bearings should be oiled with a light machine oil, not too much as there is nothing to retain it - it just leaks through and will make a filthy mess if you use too much. That's why you oil it regularly. Don't worry about a nipple, there isn't supposed to be one on the wood lathes, just the screw cap.

"When I tighten up the 'quill lock' it has some but not a completely effective lock. The tailstock can rotate loose and start to vibrate." Is it the quill working loose or the actual tailstock? Is the tailstock out of line vertically or horizontally? If horizontally you have a little leeway when tightening it down. If it doesn't tighten down fully, the thread on the clamp is very coarse and it can probably be moved a quarter of a turn. It's a bit of a pain to do. Many turners don't hone tools, I know experienced turners who never hone. I hone a skew once in a while. You need a fairly fine wheel to give you a first class edge, though.

Buy yourself a newer edition of this - Woodturning: A Foundation Course Rowley, Keith: Used: Good | Stephen White Books
you'll find it invaluable.

 

[Cabinetman]

^^^^ what Marcross said. The bearings should be oiled with a light machine oil, not too much as there is nothing to retain it - it just leaks through and will make a filthy mess if you use too much. That's why you oil it regularly. Don't worry about a nipple, there isn't supposed to be one on the wood lathes, just the screw cap.

"When I tighten up the 'quill lock' it has some but not a completely effective lock. The tailstock can rotate loose and start to vibrate." Is it the quill working loose or the actual tailstock? Is the tailstock out of line vertically or horizontally? If horizontally you have a little leeway when tightening it down. If it doesn't tighten down fully, the thread on the clamp is very coarse and it can probably be moved a quarter of a turn. It's a bit of a pain to do. Many turners don't hone tools, I know experienced turners who never hone. I hone a skew once in a while. You need a fairly fine wheel to give you a first class edge, though.

Buy yourself a newer edition of this - Woodturning: A Foundation Course Rowley, Keith: Used: Good | Stephen White Books
you'll find it invaluable.

Phil, I’m a little perplexed as to why I have never had to lubricate my lathe, and please tell me what is it quill? Ian

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The quill is the moving extending part of the tailstock. Usually when you have locked the tailstock and then brought the tail centre up to the workpiece there is a locking device of some sort (a lever or Bristol lever, usually) on the side of the tailstock which stops the quill moving. I can't remember using mine.
You should have lubricated your bearings - that you haven't just shows how good the bearings are.

 

[HamsterJam]

 

[Sandyn]

I have had a Myford ML8 for about 35 years now and it gets fairly regular use, but just for making handles, wheels, but nothing which needs high precision. I lived most of my early years on a farm, so precision was never really something I worried about. I also have a sanding disk permanently on the lathe. That is incredibly handy. I oil the bearings every so often, when I remember, but only every few months. If you oil too often, it does seep out at the head shaft. The tailstock lock works perfectly on mine, but remember, there is a morse taper on the tailstock. The lock doesn't act directly on the morse taper. If the tailstock is clamped to the bed and using a rotating centre, it will be pushed into the centre mark of the workpiece. I usually tighten it up really firmly then start the machine and it will tighten much more. you have to get it really tight, then I lock it off. Under those circumstances, I can'r see what can vibrate lose. If you are using a chuck in the tailstock to drill the workpiece, that is slightly different and the chuck may slacken in the morse taper, especially if it's a far east, no-name chuck.
Make sure the internal taper is clean, there may be dust which stops it seating properly. There is a small vertical misalignment on my lathe, which is not a problem turning, but what is really irritating is the amount of movement 'fore and aft' when the tailstock clamp is released. It is several mm and makes it very difficult to get accurate centering for drilling on the lathe. There may be a way of reducing the play, but I have never bothered trying. I may remove the tailstock and have a look. It's actually a great wee lathe for the type of work I do, but it does lack a bit of accuracy on the tailstock, which might be unacceptable for some people. I think you want your tools to be pretty sharp. It makes a huge difference. I know that, but I'm not the best at sharpening tools, so I do know the difference between a blunt tool and a really sharp one, when I occasionally get it right.

 

[HamsterJam]

I would offer to help as you are only a few miles away but unfortunately I am a beginner too.
I found Keith Rowley’s book “Woodturning - A foundation course” is a good place to start and suggest you try to get a copy if you can’t get on a course In the near future.
There are also loads of videos on Youtube but pick and choose carefully as I found some advice on there isn’t that good. One exception is Axminster who have been doing turning videos with Colwin Wey twice a week during lockdown and these could be a good place to start.
However, I think it is hard to replace learning from someone else so enrolled short course at Warwickshire College which I found very helpful, then it’s a case of practice, practice and more practice (which I get hardly any time to do).
Finally, if you need a faceplate for the ML8, I have one I think will fit it (1”x12tpi from memory). It is gathering dust in the junk drawer as it doesn’t fit anything I have so you can have it for nowt.

 

[Sandyn]

Out of interest, I removed the tailstock on the lathe to see what caused the fore and aft movement. There is a slot cut in the lathe bed tube, which is about 10mm wide. The bolt which passes through the slot and part of the clamp mechanism has a smaller diameter. There is no feature on the tailstock to take account for this difference. One method would be to have a 10mm wide metal strip, same length as the tailstock at the base. The strip would have a hole in the centre for the clamp bolt to pass through, but tighter fit. This would be fine if the movement was symmetrical, but it might cause the tailstock to coggle as it's moved. A simpler way is to have a collar over the clamp bolt where it goes through the slot. Internal diameter same as the bolt, external diameter~10mm to fit the slot. I might give that a try. It wouldn't eliminate the movement, but should reduce it. An interesting point is that because of the design of the tubular bed, with dual slots cut in it. As you clamp the tailstock, the front part of the tube flexes, but it seems to do it in such a way it might close the upper slot, hence could be made to eliminate all movement.....perhaps.

 

[Cabinetman]

Sandyn, that’s a good idea, perhaps the 10 mil outside diameter tube could be made of nylon, it would just make life more pleasant as the tailstock was moved up and down, I have a gazillion nylon bushes just that size, I will try it on Monday. Ian

 

[Sandyn]

There is a major flaw in my idea. Just done some measurements. The bolt diameter is 9.42mm and the slot is 9.5 to 10mm over it's length. It's already a reasonable fit. The tailstock centre is 10cm away from the bed, so amplifies any movement. Your nylon tube idea has given me another idea! Some heat shrink tubing over the bolt may help to reduce the movement, but I just think the tailstock is not the best design, so it would be a toss up between a free moving tailstock and amount of movement. On my lathe, the movement is not symmetrical. so the best I could do is get a fixed offset. I do have another idea for an adjustable fitting fixed to the tailstock, similar to the taper keyway which is used in many rotational adjustments, but it would require a couple of holes to be drilled in the tailstock to secure a T shaped tab to sit in the 10mm slot. The tab would have slots at the fixing screws to allow for any offsets in the tailstock. An interesting idea, but I suspect it would just cause the tailstock to jam as it was slid along the bed.

 

[Cabinetman]

Ok, thanks for that.Ian

 

[Trevanion]

Thing is, the ML8 was designed as a budget machine that some hobbyists could afford back in the day, whilst it is built very well there will be some sacrifices made to keep the cost down hence the not so accurate tubular bed instead of a heavy cast iron construct like the Union Graduate.

I've got an original price list for the ML8 and all the attachments somewhere, it'd be interesting to know how much they would've cost. Although Cabinetman probably knows off the top of his head what his cost him when he bought it new!

 

[Cabinetman]

Well Trevanian! Are you saying I’m tight or something – I do hope so, I don’t want my reputation tarnishing!
From memory I think it was about £350-400 and it came with two faceplates two rests and a large casting for turning bowls on the outside. But no motor, almost inconceivable nowadays.

 

[Sandyn]

Sandyn, that’s a good idea, perhaps the 10 mil outside diameter tube could be made of nylon, it would just make life more pleasant as the tailstock was moved up and down, I have a gazillion nylon bushes just that size, I will try it on Monday. Ian

I don't think it's worth trying. I tried the heat shrink, but it was ripped to bits after one slide along the bed of the lathe. It was also difficult to re-assemble. I think the T shaped tab is the best idea, but don't have a 10mm wide tab, but perhaps 5mm and use only one side of the slot for alignment. That way it gets rid of the possibility of jamming and takes advantage of the fore and aft movement to make the tailstock slide easier. The tailstock would be calibrated by using two centre points with the tailstock near the head. Align the points and lock the tab against the far away edge of the slot. In use, when you slide the tailstock, when at the correct position, you push it away from you aligning the tab against the slot and lock it down. I did try using a marker on the tailstock at the edge of the slot, but because of the amplification of movement, it's very difficult to align accurately, so a tab would make it easy.

 

[Trevanion]

From memory I think it was about £350-400 and it came with two faceplates two rests and a large casting for turning bowls on the outside. But no motor, almost inconceivable nowadays.

£350-£400 in 1980 would've been £1400-£1600 in today's money, without a motor! I remember a discussion on this forum of how much a graduate would cost in today's money and I think if I remember rightly it was way over £3000!