My Woodwork Journey is about to begin - Total Beginner - I may need your advice.

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Having recently built/organised myself a small area to start making "small stuff" (Current Shed Project thread), I am on the cusp of starting to learn hand skills and to try to make some "small stuff".

I'm aiming to make a few little projects - but have no fixed plan on exactly where the journey might take me after I start.

I intend to start by making a small box or two - probably in softwood, dunno yet... , initially just simple storage for shed organisation - hinged lids, pencil box type stuff, - in the aim of building the hand skills to make a couple of "keepsake boxes" for the house or nice pencil box or even a watch box/watch storage/watch display... just spit-balling, 'cos I've got no firm plans that I want to make "x" for definite.


To help set me up properly - when I comes to small keepsake boxes can anyone give me advice on what thickness of panels I should be aiming for, please? I'm guessing just from mocking up approx sizes it would be around 10mm, maybe less, maybe more - depending on box proportions. In my minds eye - I'm thinking overall dimensions in the region 200 x 150 x 80 mm as a start point (~8" x 6" x 3") - roughly in that ball park, just to kick off.

Another question I have is about using wood veneer/burl veneer - do I need a special glue, or does common wood glue do a sufficient job?


I have a few tools already assembled - even including a couple of old hand planes - although they do need a proper refurb, which is something else I'm looking forward to carrying out
Anyway - I do have, I think, "enough" toolage to start on the journey.

The overall endeavour is just for my own enjoyment - so these "things" that I make will be purely for my own pleasure - both the journey and the destination. I've always been reasonably good with my hands, and turned them to pretty much all and everything over the years, and I enjoy the process of making. I used to build fine scale aircraft models as a teenager (many years ago) and I have done a couple of plastic model cars over the years and still have enough dexterity and an eye for detail - so here's hoping some of that "maker" skill is transferable.


Looking forward to any tips/advice/support that anyone can offer.

Might even chronicle the process? We'll see..

 

[Phil Pascoe]

This is a good start. (Yes, I know faults can be found, but hey ho.)

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Thank you very much Phil - will watch that one later today.

I've watched a couple of hand plane videos already - mainly focused on sharpening and setup, though - and I have done a bit of sharpening on one already and a bit of set-up fettling to decent effect.

One thing that I have already done is watch countless YouTube videos - and I know watching is no substitute for doing (I'm a qualified instructor as part of my job role) but at least watching videos gives the visual clues on what to aim for when starting to learn a new manual skill.

I don't know if anyone can empathise with my excitement for embarking on this journey???

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

The reason I ask about board thickness for small box projects is to ensure I concentrate on building the hand skills to split boards with a hand saw and hand plane them down to required thickness. Thickness info would really help me buying the right kind of stock in the first place.

My thoughts on doing small boxes included an intention to practice all of the regular build techniques, including mitred (intend to make a couple of shooting boards), box/finger joints, and dovetail jointed boxes - so that I'll get practice on all of these techniques - to see what I like - what is in scope for my developing skill levels - and where to concentrate more practice.

Watching videos is OK to get the workflow and thoughts behind those building techniques, but they don't provide enough detail on plans or dimensions. The overall dimensions and proportions can be "judged" by eyeball - and I have a plastic lunch box that is of decent dimensions/proportions that makes me want to start in this ballpark - but as for board thickness - this isn't something that I am able to judge by eye just by watching videos, so a bit of help on board thickness would go a long way to helping me embark on the journey.

 

[Jacob]

....


To help set me up properly - when I comes to small keepsake boxes can anyone give me advice on what thickness of panels I should be aiming for, please? I'm guessing just from mocking up approx sizes it would be around 10mm, maybe less, maybe more - depending on box proportions. In my minds eye - I'm thinking overall dimensions in the region 200 x 150 x 80 mm as a start point (~8" x 6" x 3") - roughly in that ball park, just to kick off.

10mm fairly hefty at that size. Maybe 6mm? Thinner for tops and bottoms?
10mm is enough for even quite large drawer sides.
Main thing is to keep looking at existing stuff and always have a tape measure in your pocket. Get tuned in - guesswork can be miles out!

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Amazing - thank you Jacob.

Do you think 6mm is "wide enough" for hand cut dovetails to look good and for a decent/sufficient glue-up area for mitred edges (support wedges notwithstanding)?

 

[Jacob]

Amazing - thank you Jacob.

Do you think 6mm is "wide enough" for hand cut dovetails to look good and for a decent/sufficient glue-up area for mitred edges (support wedges notwithstanding)?

Yes but it's up to you!
Good idea to knock up half dozen boxes for practice. They always come in handy.
If you have a table saw then easiest and neatest small box joint is a simple tongue and groove - I made hundreds of 150mm cube boxes with 6mm sides 4mm tops/bottoms, for jackinaboxes. Made as a cube 6 sides then top sawn off. If you did DTs you'd need an extra wide DT where the cut would line up, to leave a sensible sized half DT, plus allowance for width of kerf.
As with most things there's more to it and more variations than you'd imagine at first - so keep looking at stuff.
PS do not attempt so-called "box joint" by hand - this is strictly a machined joint. By hand DTs are easier.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Don't over think it Mark.

Here's some candle boxes I made - the sides are all 10mm

Perhaps they needed to be 10mm as they have a sliding lid but even if it wasn't I'd still probably not go too much below.

Are you going to use hinges? If so that will determine the minimum thickness.

You'll be okay with dovetails at 6mm. Not sure I follow what you mean by mitred edges? you could do a mitre joint at 6mm but it won't be very strong - it just depends what the box will be used for as to whether it's suitable. I use 6mm mitre joints for jewellery box trays and they are fine.

Dovetailing with softwoods can be a bit of a pig. Cherry or Sycamore are (imho) two relatively inexpensive hardwoods that are easy to work with hand tools when starting out. You may find a local timber yard with an offcuts section?

On sizing I find having the golden ratio (1 : 1.618) in mind comforting. That may say something about how my mind works than anything else though!

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

glue wise
at this stage I would stick to casamite ( has to be mixed can be a pain
or ever build 502 pva ( ready to use ) can be bought from amazom

 

[Fitzroy]

My advice would be don't overthink it, pick a project, find some cheap wood and have a go making something. A good source of cheap wood is old furniture, use GumTree to find free tables, wardrobes etc and chop them up.

I searched Lincoln + 30miles and this popped up, free old wardrobe bound to be enough wood in there to make a bunch of things.
https://www.gumtree.com/p/wardrobes-shelving-storage/large-triple-wardrobe-teak-finish/1487918570

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Yes but it's up to you!
Good idea to knock up half dozen boxes for practice. They always come in handy.
If you have a table saw then easiest and neatest small box joint is a simple tongue and groove - I made hundreds of 150mm cube boxes with 6mm sides 4mm tops/bottoms, for jackinaboxes. Made as a cube 6 sides then top sawn off. If you did DTs you'd need an extra wide DT where the cut would line up, to leave a sensible sized half DT, plus allowance for width of kerf.
As with most things there's more to it and more variations than you'd imagine at first - so keep looking at stuff.
PS do not attempt so-called "box joint" by hand - this is strictly a machined joint. By hand DTs are easier.

Yep - I do have table-saw - and previously made a crosscut sled for my old Einhell that I just need to replace the sliders on for the replacement Evolution table.

I understand exactly what you mean with the dovetail spacing on cut boxes - I watched a few YT vids of *perfectly* aligned and cut DTs - then the alignment being ruined when they cut the top of the box off!!!! Really gave my engineer's OCD "the twitch" (TM)
So I'd already noted that and already know the kerf size of my table-saw blade (and my Japanese pull saw) even before I start making them.

I'd recruit the sled for finger joints.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Don't over think it Mark.

Here's some candle boxes I made - the sides are all 10mm

View attachment 191649

Perhaps they needed to be 10mm as they have a sliding lid but even if it wasn't I'd still probably not go too much below.

Are you going to use hinges? If so that will determine the minimum thickness.

You'll be okay with dovetails at 6mm. Not sure I follow what you mean by mitred edges? you could do a mitre joint at 6mm but it won't be very strong - it just depends what the box will be used for as to whether it's suitable. I use 6mm mitre joints for jewellery box trays and they are fine.

Dovetailing with softwoods can be a bit of a pig. Cherry or Sycamore are (imho) two relatively inexpensive hardwoods that are easy to work with hand tools when starting out. You may find a local timber yard with an offcuts section?

On sizing I find having the golden ratio (1 : 1.618) in mind comforting. That may say something about how my mind works than anything else though!

First off - those are really nice boxes - probably be a while before I have anywhere near enough skill to pull that off successfully - but that of course is the eventual aim

I've looked at hinges already in the attempt to judge thickness of sides and the list is endless, so that was no help. I'd probably spec the hinges to fit the thickness rather than other way around.

I just meant mitre joints - and this is what I was trying to weigh up - whether a thin board could be successfully/strongly glued well into a mitre joint, even using those inset wedges for strength.

Agreed on working/chiselling softwood - I had a few issues with "detail" when using even a really sharp chisel on my shed window build, particularly the cross-grain area - resorted to a stanley knife blade a couple times to prevent grain pinching together etc and learned that order of waste removal is important cross-grain/along grain.


I wholeheartedly agree with phi

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

glue wise
at this stage I would stick to casamite ( has to be mixed can be a pain
or ever build 502 pva ( ready to use ) can be bought from amazom

Is that for the veneer glue question?

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

no sorry more gen wood work... I dont do vaneer if i can help it
more big heavy garden chairs, gates, stools and of late wood bowls and chirstmas trees

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

My advice would be don't overthink it, pick a project, find some cheap wood and have a go making something. A good source of cheap wood is old furniture, use GumTree to find free tables, wardrobes etc and chop them up.

I searched Lincoln + 30miles and this popped up, free old wardrobe bound to be enough wood in there to make a bunch of things.
https://www.gumtree.com/p/wardrobes-shelving-storage/large-triple-wardrobe-teak-finish/1487918570

Great minds - I've already got a few bits n pieces of old furniture broken down and stashed in the shed

Another little job I'm looking to do at some point is to replace a bathroom storage box that looks something like this:

planning to use some of the broken hardwood furniture boards to achieve that. (If I can build enough skill?)

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

no sorry more gen wood work... I dont do vaneer if i can help it
more big heavy garden chairs, gates, stools and of late wood bowls and chirstmas trees

Cool - thanks.

I have this stuff already:

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

everbuild 502 all purpose weatherproof wood adhesive 5 litre
my go to glue

 

[Jacob]

Don't over think it Mark.

Here's some candle boxes I made - the sides are all 10mm

View attachment 191649

Perhaps they needed to be 10mm as they have a sliding lid but even if it wasn't I'd still probably not go too much below.

Are you going to use hinges? If so that will determine the minimum thickness.

You'll be okay with dovetails at 6mm. Not sure I follow what you mean by mitred edges? you could do a mitre joint at 6mm but it won't be very strong - it just depends what the box will be used for as to whether it's suitable. I use 6mm mitre joints for jewellery box trays and they are fine.

Dovetailing with softwoods can be a bit of a pig. Cherry or Sycamore are (imho) two relatively inexpensive hardwoods that are easy to work with hand tools when starting out. You may find a local timber yard with an offcuts section?

On sizing I find having the golden ratio (1 : 1.618) in mind comforting. That may say something about how my mind works than anything else though!

Nice boxes.
I've done similar and yes a bit thicker for the sliding slot. I did sliding tops with hand planed bevels rather than a moulding, it's easier, you make it fit well as you go, and I like the hand done appearance.
I did some with exotic odds and ends for tops - bits of pitch pine or quarter cut highly patterned oak, not enough to make a whole box. You can use up lots of offcuts, every side can be a different species!
I've also done them with plain butted joints, which is easiest of all but a bit fiddly to clamp. With DTs you don't need to clamp if they are tight enough. The wet glue soon tightens them more.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Already got that stored for future me in my mind's eye. Contrasting wood for the top panel. Nice.

I fact, that's why I asked about veneer glue. A burl veneer top panel, in a contrasting colour is something my future self might like to try?

This weekend is when it begins...

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

have fun ..