Multico M3 Morticer 3ph Inverter help

[DigitalM]

Does anyone have experience and suggestions for an inverter and where it's best to buy one, for a Multico M3 3 phase Morticer?

Model:

Motor info:

 

[Ttrees]

I like the isacon/askpower drives as they have auto shutoff fan technology, rather than others with them running all the time.
I don't know anything about morticers as in, if its common to stall or slow one down one in heavy work?
These cheap VFD's don't like that.
Should be a doddle to hook up as it states that you have a dual voltage motor.
Tom

 

[DigitalM]

Thanks, I'm struggling to interpret exactly what 220/380-420 means! I don't have a manual - maybe you can switch it between those voltage somehow. The current seems to suggest that when running at a lower voltage it draws more current (which makes more sense) - but surely that can't be automatic. I would have thought it would have to be rewired or switched somehow.

 

[Ttrees]

There's three little tabs under the motor terminal cover
You will see six connections/three pairs of wires.
If its in wired in low voltage mode (delta triangle symbol 220volts) which is what you want it to be, you will see three "straps"
joining the 3 pairs of motor terminals.
If it is configured in high voltage mode, Star 380/420 you will only see two straps configured only in one line not paired
Two of these three straps is stacked on top of the other, and they need to be arranged the other orientation to pair up each winding.
Look up Bob/Robert Minchins/9fingers PDF on induction motors, here's a link, if it doesn't work look under his posts for the direct link which will work.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GZrX ... sp=sharing

http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopi ... ors#p39194

Main things with VFD's are... not to put a plug in-between motor and VFD, and....
Program the parameters correctly (motor commands like speed) as you stand a very good chance of cooking your motor if you dont.

Main things for your safety is wait for the capacitors to drain from VFD before going near the input/output power terminals!

Tom

 

[Fitzroy]

.75kw / 1hp VFD on the bay for £60-70. Chinese made, horrible instructions but work fine in my opinion. If you’re using the machine every day perhaps you’d want something higher quality but for occasional use my two have been fine for years.

It can be tricky/daunting getting your head around wiring and set up but read a bunch of posts about and it becomes clear, and is not that tough.

As advised change the motor to delta rather than star/Y configuration, wire the VFD direct to the motor not the switch, and program the settings on the VFD are the main steps.

Fitz.

 

[Ttrees]

Looking at some morticers with very large wheels, or bent pull down bar versions from people 'anging on em
I sort of got the impression that it wouldn't be unheard of to stall or slow them, possibly even regularly.
As said the cheap VFD's dont like this.
I suspect that you could be fine with one of the cheapos, but never used or seen a morticer in action, so can't say for definite.
Tom

 

[Trevanion]

I sort of got the impression that it wouldn't be unheard of to stall or slow them, possibly even regularly.

I work with morticers almost daily and have used many different ones and they all jam from time to time, regularly enough anyway. It's usually a case of pulling through the timber too quickly and not having adequate chip ejection IE, starting a mortice where the ejection port gradually gets more and more closed the deeper you go. It's pretty much the same as any kind of drill, if you don't let the drill bit flutes clear you will either stall it out, snap an auger or in worst the circumstance split a hollow chisel straight down the middle from expansion, which I have seen happen.

 

[deema]

For a first VFD I would use the following. Excellent easy start manual and lots of help should you need it from Weg. Good high quality inverter not to be considered in the same league as an import from the Far East where in my opinion CE marking is considered to stand for Chinese Export. I have used this model myself.

https://weg.inverterdrive.com/group/AC- ... C04P2S220/

 

[DigitalM]

Thx, not too far from me, could drive up and collect. Will call them, thanks.

 

[deema]

If you use Page 11 or the easy start manual, just don’t program / set P265 to ‘0’ (not used / factory default) and dont buy a forward / Reverse switch. You will need an instantaneous start and a stop button (plus switches which clip to the back and come separately). I would again buy the WEG buttons and switches, cheap and proper industrial quality. The parts they quote in the easy start manual are I think obsolete, but they can give you the latest versions of the exact same switch from WEG, I bought a number from Invertredrive a couple of weeks ago, if they aren’t in stock they can usual get within a couple of days.

You will need possibly three additional items, a bit of DIN track, which you can get from eBay to mount the VFD on. A box to keep the dust off the VFD and either mount the box on the Morticer or on the wall adjacent in which case you will also need a small box to mount the switches on. Finally I would add a double pole single throw rocker switch that’s illuminated with say 16A load capacity (or a rotary isolator) that is out on the input to the VFD to turn the power off to the VFD when not in use. DO NOT put this switch between the VFD and the motor.

The wire to the switches can be anything, it’s low voltage and current so nit an issue. I equally don’t worry about having screened cable to the motor, I usually use SY cable, only because I like to Earth screen in case it gets damaged / trapped and is nice and flexible.

The VFD I’ve highlighted is I think the smallest unit in size you can get and fits in a nice small box (taking into account space required around it)

 

[DigitalM]

Haven't quite read through all the info in the last couple of posts as have had a hell of a work day (here I am posting at 4:30am!) but dropped the morticer off in the workshop (still in two pieces!) on the way home and took the opportunity to whip off the motor cover and take a picture. It doesn't quite look like the photos in the Induction Motors PDF, but I've only skip read it. I'll get a chance to do some research tomorrow, after I've helped a mate move house ... it's all go! Frankly just relieved that the machine can run in 220V, dodged a bullet there.

 

[deema]

It looks like the three terminals in a row are one side of the three coils, the single terminal is the star point. The wires look to be labelled so you can see which cable on the star point relates to which other terminal. Simply remove the wires from the star point and connect them one to each of the other three terminals such that two wires with the same label don’t go to the same terminal, you now have it wired in delta / 240V.

 

[DigitalM]

Got a moment to document how it is before I start!

Maybe a dumb question but before I start reading all the posts and PDF, this thing that everything is wired to ... it's just a junction box right? The terminals aren't hard wired through to anything else on the other side, for example?

 

[DigitalM]

So, I think this is what was being suggested. However, the current switch that is on the machine is coming off and being replaced by the inverter? I'll get my head around this tomorrow.

 

[Ttrees]

Hello
Yes you will need to whip off the original switch for the machine, as the ones for the VFD are different.
The placement of this original switch could make a good mounting point for either the VFD or a switch box if you choose.
You might choose to have the switches in along with the VFD in the box if its not in the way.

Here's another thread on this, and you will find some links to the cheapest switches I've found on the bay...
You don't need fancy ones.

startrite-275-table-saw-conversion-3-phase-single-phase-t106896.html?hilit=can%20anyone%20wire%20an%20inverter&start=15

Tom

 

[Fitzroy]

Yup, the motor is wired in delta in your schematic. The blue, black, and brown wires connect direct to the three terminals on the VFD. If the motor turns the wrong way you switch round two of the connections at the VFD. Most VFDs can have a remote run switch wired into them to avoid having to press the fiddly buttons on the device.

Whilst you have the terminal block open if you have a multi meter you can check the resistance of each winding, they should all be similar, and also make sure there is no obvious short circuit to the motor body from any of the windings.

Fitz

 

[DigitalM]

I'm really struggling at the moment to find somewhere that sells a reasonable wall box for an ip20 rated VFD like the kind suggested in the thread a few times. Anyone know a good source? Or did everyone just make one?

EDIT: Just been through the specs a lot more carefully and there do seem to be quite a few options at RS.

 

[deema]

The VFD I’ve recommended is extremey small, when ever I’ve used this one I’ve managed to find somewhere within the machine to hide it that keeps it out of harms way. What’s required is just to stop rubbish being blown by the fan that’s mounted in the bottom into the heat sinks causing them to clog up and not cool the device properly.

I’ve never used or ‘played with’ the Multico morticer, but looking at photos online there would appear to be good opportunity to hide it either in the column or in the base. You can then either replace the DOL (on /off) switch box with a neat little plastic box you can get off an auction site for a couple of pounds, or alternatively but the DOL and replace the buttons.

 

[DigitalM]

The column contains a counter weight that rides up and down so that would be out. However the base is just a box, so will look into that. Really appreciate it deema.

 

[Inspector]

I bought a VFD for my 5hp dust collector direct from China. I used Alibaba but would buy direct when I need another. They are called DaLian Powtran Technology Co., Ltd and you can contact theM through their website and tell them what the motor specs your morticer has, what your input voltage/phase is, the output voltage (220V) and ask them quote the prices too. They will tell you what they recommend and how much it will cost. You can decide then. They are well made and I think you can get ones that are more dust resistant than the one you are considering. You can program it for a soft start and for motor braking if needed. Mine is a P19000 series and the control panel can be remotely mounted from the unit with the provided 2 metre cable. For what it is worth the manual is almost 200 pages long and well written. Probably over kill for what you need. If you have problems they have staff 24/7 to help with any issues. Mine was about $170US with shipping around $50 to Canada (I politely haggled them down from $75 :lol: ). It took a couple weeks once the payment was sent.
http://powtran.com/en-us/index.aspx