Mr Punch first appearance (I.Sorby).
- Thread starter Mr_P
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Help with this chisel: i found this I & H Sorby chisel in a skip, looked like a piece of rusty old leaf spring til i cleaned it up a bit.
I have read all the links above, & some, relating too Sorby history.
In brief, John Sorby & Sons was established in 1797 & their trademark was a hanging sheep or 'golden fleece' first registered in 1791.
After J.Sorby retired his sons took over & became I & H Sorby, this company was aquired by Lockwood Brothers in 1845.
In 1932 the trademarks of John Sorby were purchased by Turner Naylor & Co, who continued to use the trademarks.
So what age is this chisel?? Regardless i would like to re purpose it & get further useage from it. To do so i need a handle! What sort of handle should it have?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I have read all the links above, & some, relating too Sorby history.
In brief, John Sorby & Sons was established in 1797 & their trademark was a hanging sheep or 'golden fleece' first registered in 1791.
After J.Sorby retired his sons took over & became I & H Sorby, this company was aquired by Lockwood Brothers in 1845.
In 1932 the trademarks of John Sorby were purchased by Turner Naylor & Co, who continued to use the trademarks.
So what age is this chisel?? Regardless i would like to re purpose it & get further useage from it. To do so i need a handle! What sort of handle should it have?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Orraloon
Established Member
Thats a nice looking old chisel. As to handle then whatever you like really. If you have a lathe then either design your own or copy an old handle you like the look of. Without a lathe then something 8 sided. Use a hardwood. Ferrules can be bought or just cut some metal tube.
There are chisel handles for sale but will not really look the part on a nice old chisel like that.
Most of my chisels are old vintage ones I rescued and have had to make quite a few handles. My dad was a carpenter and always said Sorby chisels were the best.
More than half the chisels hanging behind the bench I had to make handles for. As long as it feels good in the hand and I like the look of it then its ok with me.
Regards
John
There are chisel handles for sale but will not really look the part on a nice old chisel like that.
Most of my chisels are old vintage ones I rescued and have had to make quite a few handles. My dad was a carpenter and always said Sorby chisels were the best.
More than half the chisels hanging behind the bench I had to make handles for. As long as it feels good in the hand and I like the look of it then its ok with me.
Regards
John
John, a practical question on this great thread what is your preferred method of cutting the mortice for the tapered tang?
I've a lot of old chisels from my ancestors that need restoring but I can see that I'll need to catalogue & date the makers marks first !!
Hi john, thanks for your reply. I can see that 'whatever suits' is good enough. But should this chisel have a ferrule at both ends? Should it have a leather shock washer? I'd like to restore it as authentic as possible, which is why i was researching the history. So many variables . . . Handle style . . . Material?
Orraloon
Established Member
In answer to the two posts above.
The hole stepped to suit the flare of the tang. Start with a hole about the size of the narrow end and go slightly deeper than tang length.then a drill about the size of the mid tang and so on. Easiest way to size drill bits for this is trace the tang on paper mark off 3 or 4 steps then hold bits against the drawing. Aim for a slightly tight fit.
For an authentic looking handle then old tool catalogues should give an idea. You need a ferrule on the tang end every time . Leather washer is a nice touch but not essential if you are not really wailing into it with a mallet. A band or ferrule on the striking end (not sure of correct term for this one) if it is going to take a heavy pounding. Usually mortice and firmer chisels. If there are ferrules on an old handle then reuse them as the very worst rusted old ones still come up like new on the lathe.
There are plenty videos on making chisel handles.
Turning a Chisel Handle | Paul Sellers - YouTube
Fitting a Chisel Handle | Paul Sellers - YouTube
I will point out that I do it a bit different by drilling out on the lathe before I shape the handle so the hole is perfectly centered but I put up Paul's fitting video for those without lathes.
Regards
John
The hole stepped to suit the flare of the tang. Start with a hole about the size of the narrow end and go slightly deeper than tang length.then a drill about the size of the mid tang and so on. Easiest way to size drill bits for this is trace the tang on paper mark off 3 or 4 steps then hold bits against the drawing. Aim for a slightly tight fit.
For an authentic looking handle then old tool catalogues should give an idea. You need a ferrule on the tang end every time . Leather washer is a nice touch but not essential if you are not really wailing into it with a mallet. A band or ferrule on the striking end (not sure of correct term for this one) if it is going to take a heavy pounding. Usually mortice and firmer chisels. If there are ferrules on an old handle then reuse them as the very worst rusted old ones still come up like new on the lathe.
There are plenty videos on making chisel handles.
Turning a Chisel Handle | Paul Sellers - YouTube
Fitting a Chisel Handle | Paul Sellers - YouTube
I will point out that I do it a bit different by drilling out on the lathe before I shape the handle so the hole is perfectly centered but I put up Paul's fitting video for those without lathes.
Regards
John
Thanks John
Drill an undersized (but not under length) stepped hole and put the chisel in a vise and then turn the handle on the tang to increase the size of the handle. Once you are reasonably close to being finished (quarter or half inch? go by feel) and are certain that the handle is going on straight, then you can tap it the rest of the way.
(sorry, not clear - "increase the size of the handle hole" - the tang itself when the corners have some sharpness are the best method to create the appropriate taper to then compress the tang into). The turning method also allows some observation and adjustment to make sure the handle is going on straight (you can lean on it a little to change the direction of the hole while turning - not enormous amounts, but small adjustments).
C.R. Miller
Established Member
To be fair, Geoffrey Tweedale states that the first (known) appearance is from an 1816 trade directory, however that does not mean that the company did not originate six years earlier. I'm of the opinion that the date of 1810 is probably correct - but it's only my opinion. Also, the original firm was Sorby and Turner (John Sorby & John Turner, but a different John than the one from Spital Hill). Joseph Turner, of Turner, Naylor & Co., was one of John's sons. So the company, as a whole, was a natural progression of the original firm.
I. Sorby is John Sorby (Sorby and Turner) for the record. There was never an Isaac Sorby. Both Geoffrey and myself have done extensive research into this for my book, which was published in 2013. Sadly out of print now but a new edition is coming.
A "primitive" Mr Punch may have just been a bad strike or a worn out stamp. These things happen. It can be difficult to date chisels sometimes unless the stamps/designs themselves change. Mr Punch was fairly consistent for 80 or 90 years, though the chisels after WWII are fairly straightforward to date because of the round shanks. I'm talking about the firmers and the bevel edge chisels here, by the way.
I. Sorby is John Sorby (Sorby and Turner) for the record. There was never an Isaac Sorby. Both Geoffrey and myself have done extensive research into this for my book, which was published in 2013. Sadly out of print now but a new edition is coming.
A "primitive" Mr Punch may have just been a bad strike or a worn out stamp. These things happen. It can be difficult to date chisels sometimes unless the stamps/designs themselves change. Mr Punch was fairly consistent for 80 or 90 years, though the chisels after WWII are fairly straightforward to date because of the round shanks. I'm talking about the firmers and the bevel edge chisels here, by the way.
