Mr C delivers....who needs a Titemark anyway?

[woodbloke]

Further to the recent interesting thread on marking gauge mods, the latest copy of F&C dropped onto the mat this morning inside which were the latest current thoughts of Mr C on marking gauges, amongst other interesting stuff yet to be devoured. Another couple of hours work and the already improved gauges are now marvellous....so who needs a Titemark now?...not I :lol:
Firstly the stem is handplaned at a steepish angle as in the pic below so that when the brass knob hits the slope of the stem it is forced into the corners of the stock and thus no wobble. Also the aperture from whence the pin protudes has also been relieved to make the minimum projection of the cutter and you can also see the end of it more easily :

Then a slither of a very thick leather belt is shaped and stuck inside the stock under the brass knob to take up any slack as so:

Then comes the pin. I originally modified the existing pin which to say the least is very fiddly. However Mr C recommends a much chunkier pin made from a modified masonry nail, suitable shaped and polished on the Tormek into a small cutting gauge, which is relatively straight forward to do:

The pic above shows the original pin, the front and back of a new pin and the raw material (a large Oboe masonry nail)

The final pic shows the now completed gauges which are now superb, so if you have any of the traditional style gauges, a 40p pack of 7 nails and a couple of hours in the 'shop will transform them....you can flog the wheelgauges of various denominations on the bay...where no doubt Martin will.......

Big thanks to Mr C for an excellent article ccasion5: - Rob

 

[Alf]

I can't but help wonder at what point it'd be easier just to make one from scratch... :-k :wink:

 

[woodbloke]

Alf - I was pondering that myself this morning. Fairly straight forward I would have thought except for making the screw thread in the stock and the corresponding thread in the doohicky wot tightens it up. Ok I 'spose if you have screw cutting gear for wood and I think that separate plastic thumb tightener-uppers are probably available somewhere on the net, but its still a bit of a faff..... that's if you don't want to get involved with lots of metalwork machining as in the rosewood and brass versions. Probably other ways and means round it tho' - Rob

 

[MikeW]

Nice one Rob and Mr. C...

Probably like half the planet, I have a few gauges which should get some of the modifications you have been posting about, Rob. Well done. Might actually make me dig around the boxes and find them!

Making a gauge can be as difficult as one makes of it. I think the kind you have here would be at the harder end, what with the brass, screws and pressure foot.

Here's one which Dean Jansa made me last summer. It has been published in Popular Woodworking last December. Based upon the one in the Seaton chest.

Just takes a push with the thumb or finger to lock/unlock it. One of our favorite gauges around here and easily modified for different purposes and sizes. Definitely easier to make than one with a screw.

Take care, Mike

 

[superunknown]

MikeW, I love that Idea.

I think I will spend some of my Sunday having a go at a few gauges thank you.

 

[woodbloke]

Here's another alternative way with the wedge along the side, no wobble at all and the pin on the diagonal - Rob

 

[Alf]

Too dark now (and anyway there's depressing rugby to listen too) but I've a, erm, wide range of gauges many of which are craftsman-made which I can take some pics of if it'll inspire someone to have a go. Everything from wedged to a cam.

Cheers, Alf

 

[MikeW]

Oh, a picture or two of a cammed one would be great as long as you are taking requests :lol:

Don't got one of them.

Thanks in advance, Alf :wink:

Mike

 

[Nick W]

The great advantage of the design in Mike's post is the setting the lock won't cause the gauge's setting to be lost. With sliding mechanisms that work along the axis of the stick, there is always a danger that the stick will move with the wedge - even if you do put a sliver of sandpaper in the mortice.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Thanks for posting those pictures, Rob and Mike. Tools that are nice to use really do make a difference. Be interesting to see pictures of yours as well, Alf.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Joel Moskowitz]

Sorry but I'm lost here. with the pin coming out at a diagonal you lose the control you get when the pin comes out the center because it would be harder to pivot on the beam to control pressure. not to mention a short pin is harder to see (especially lately for me). THe wedged beam is a good idea - pioneered by Colen Clenton.

 

[MikeW]

...THe wedged beam is a good idea - pioneered by Colen Clenton. ...

Uh, you probably don't mean the same thing as in my post do you?

Cause though the wedged gauge as in the Seaton had a round wedge, it is the same as the one Dean made for me, only the type of wedge on mine is a tad easier to make.

Been around a while longer than Clenton.

Take care, Mike

 

[Joel Moskowitz]

no mike - not the same thing as a wedged clamping mechanism. I mean a slightly offsquare beam so that when a thumbscrew is tighted down it wedges against the square hole in the fence in two dimensions so that is doesn't wobble. I don't recall anyone commerically offering that design earlier than Clenton's oviously fairly recent innovation.

 

[MikeW]

Ah. When you wrote wedged beam, I of course took it to be a wedge itself. Hey, never claimed to be able to follow along well :lol:

Basiceally, his design looks like a typical pressure shoe, and it appears the mortise is cut a bit loose. Probably missing something here too. But I have heard they are nice gauges.

So I found this cut-away graphic of Colen's gauge on Terry's site, just so people know what we are yammering on about.

Thanks for the clarification, Joel.

Take care, Mike

 

[woodbloke]

Joel - I suggest the way to do this is to have a go - its dead easy to convert a standard gauge to one with a diagonal pin, even if you don't use a giant sized DC type of pin. Simple wooden gauges are dirt cheap and it takes about 2 minutes to convert to a diagonal pin, once you've made a mitre cradle - the difference is staggering....try it - Rob

 

[Alf]

Okay, fished out a selection of user-made/user-modified gauges from various dark and dusty corners for your amusement:

The long ash-shafted one is presumably someone's solution to an urgent need for a panel gauge. Needs a bit of care in use... Far left is pretty self-explanatory. Down the middle, top to bottom we have a BugBear special, an early Alf, cam variety in mahogany, wedged sans wedge, another early Alf.

Some detail. The wooden thread one is very cool, very large and very difficult to set to an accurate mark. How to make you own cam gauge if you fancy. The two I made show a couple of options to prevent the thumb screw marking the stem. The wedged one's interesting 'cos the underside of the arm is radiused, presumably to aid rolling the pin to the desired depth a la Joel's sketch? Absolutely none of them have the pin on the diagonal - sorry.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Joel Moskowitz]

Rob,
The standard gauge works perfectly - marks, smoothly, totally controlable, leaves anywhere from a whisper line to a great groove depending on my pressure, doesn't jump, skip, or anything else, so unless I understand the benifit that's just more than a tweak I can't see why I would spend the effort. and of course it would trash a gauge - of which I don't have that many and I use a lot of gauges at the same time when I work (mostly for marking stock for planing). IIRC a few years ago I think I did try a gauge like this but obviously it didn't make much of an impression either way at the time.
My question is what features does this gauge have that makes it an improvement? and it's not obvious to me escpeially since I am so happy with the traditional design. Are the advantages so obvious that they don't need mention? Am I so bound by tradition that I can't see it? I don't know. I still use a fountain pen because I find it's easier on the hand than a ball point and I write faster and neater and I'm perplexed why anyone uses a ballpoint - but they do.

 

[Joel Moskowitz]

Alf,
A bottom radius doesn't help because you roll the gauge on the corner of the beam. I am truly amazed that this technique of using the beam to contol pressure has been lost in parts of the woodworking world. I routinely teach it in my store and customer's eye's just light up. My website has some pictures, but not the drawing and I really need to freshen up the entire gauge guide.

I think I have a cam lock gauge somewhere- I don't use it - not for any real reason I just don't. My thought is that the reason the design fell out of favor industrially was that in production a cammed gauge is easier to accidently knock loose. Most old gagues used screws not thumbscrews - because once set you would not want them to accidently get reset. I put a piece of tape over my thumbscrews to indicate it's set but I work alone so I don't worry about some silly person removing the tape.

 

[MikeW]

Oh, Alf--thanks for the cam version and the link. Gonna have to make one of those simply because I don't have one!

Take care, Mike

 

[Alf]

Alf,
A bottom radius doesn't help because you roll the gauge on the corner of the beam.

It does on a scratchstock - what's the difference? Genuine question, not a challenge, I hasten to add. To be honest I wasn't aware the art of pivoting on the beam had been lost. One of those things that's apparently so insignificant no-one bothers to make a big deal of it?

Mike, well I was going to make one 'cos I didn't have one too - then I saw this one and another noble resolution whithered i' the bud.

Cheers, Alf