Chris Knight
Established Member
Gidon,
Yes, just melt and stir.
Yes, just melt and stir.
Moving away from waterstones
- Thread starter Karl
- Start date
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I also found transferring some of the blue compound to my strop got me in a strop.
It was so hard and such an effort, it really hurt. The tip with the vaseline saved the day and now it just slips in (sorry on). :wink:
I use norton oil stones with the arkansas final stone for sharpening and I thought I was getting a very sharp blade, but not quite as sharp as the planes I saw and used at Yandles. I suspect this is more to do with my technique than the equipment.
Tony.
It was so hard and such an effort, it really hurt. The tip with the vaseline saved the day and now it just slips in (sorry on). :wink:
I use norton oil stones with the arkansas final stone for sharpening and I thought I was getting a very sharp blade, but not quite as sharp as the planes I saw and used at Yandles. I suspect this is more to do with my technique than the equipment.
Tony.
For those who don't like sloshing water or oil about Ez Cut diamond plates are used dry.
Yes indeed PH, I use a genuine, very old, piece of Arkansas stone for finishing. It's been in use for so long that it is impregnated with oil now.
Roy.
Yes indeed PH, I use a genuine, very old, piece of Arkansas stone for finishing. It's been in use for so long that it is impregnated with oil now.
Roy.
woodbloke
Established Member
Karl wrote:
Provided you can obtain the ground bevel, then yes, the extra-fine green DMT is the only one you need to obtain the honed bevel, with the micro-bevel being obtained with either a strop or something like a 10000g Spyderco ceramic.
Fwiw I took two identical, freshly ground (23deg) plane blades over to Pete Newton's a while back and we honed one using the green DMT and strop with jewellers rouge. The other was honed with the same DMT but the micro-bevel was done on Pete's 10000g Spyderco with the ruler trick being used on the reverse. The result of this little experiment was that we both thought that the edge produced from the Spyderco was significantly sharper than using a strop, which is why I now use a ceramic stone rather than the strop. Don't misunderstand, the strop still produced a very, very good edge, it's just that the ceramic stone produced a better one :wink: - Rob
Provided you can obtain the ground bevel, then yes, the extra-fine green DMT is the only one you need to obtain the honed bevel, with the micro-bevel being obtained with either a strop or something like a 10000g Spyderco ceramic.
Fwiw I took two identical, freshly ground (23deg) plane blades over to Pete Newton's a while back and we honed one using the green DMT and strop with jewellers rouge. The other was honed with the same DMT but the micro-bevel was done on Pete's 10000g Spyderco with the ruler trick being used on the reverse. The result of this little experiment was that we both thought that the edge produced from the Spyderco was significantly sharper than using a strop, which is why I now use a ceramic stone rather than the strop. Don't misunderstand, the strop still produced a very, very good edge, it's just that the ceramic stone produced a better one :wink: - Rob
matthewwh
Established Member
Hi Paul,
Sorry, I've only just picked up on this thread.
Regarding the bars, all the above advice is true; i.e. fine compounds do tend to have a harder wax, they are intended for use on a buffing wheel which generate loads of friction, you can melt them with a bit of vaseline to make a soft stropping compound etc.
Before you do that though, you might try leaving the bar in a warm place like an airing cupboard for a couple of days. Once the wax has been warmed a little it should be easier to apply. If you ever use it on a buffing wheel it's important to leave the wheel running for a couple of minutes after applying it. This allows the wax to re-harden and it holds the particles better, so you get more use out of it.
If it still isn't doing the job you wanted it for, just pop it back to me and I'll sort you out with a refund.
Sorry, I've only just picked up on this thread.
Regarding the bars, all the above advice is true; i.e. fine compounds do tend to have a harder wax, they are intended for use on a buffing wheel which generate loads of friction, you can melt them with a bit of vaseline to make a soft stropping compound etc.
Before you do that though, you might try leaving the bar in a warm place like an airing cupboard for a couple of days. Once the wax has been warmed a little it should be easier to apply. If you ever use it on a buffing wheel it's important to leave the wheel running for a couple of minutes after applying it. This allows the wax to re-harden and it holds the particles better, so you get more use out of it.
If it still isn't doing the job you wanted it for, just pop it back to me and I'll sort you out with a refund.
paulm
IG paulm_outdoors
Thanks for the advice Matthew, have moved both the soaps closer to the heat source in the workshop to warm them up a bit.
If that doesn't help then think I will try making a paste with them as suggested.
Might be the weekend before I get to try again though, back to the office today after a couple of days hols, so no more playing in the workshop for a few days
:lol:
Cheers, Paul.
If that doesn't help then think I will try making a paste with them as suggested.
Might be the weekend before I get to try again though, back to the office today after a couple of days hols, so no more playing in the workshop for a few days
:lol: Cheers, Paul.
Quick update
I managed to get a Trend double sided stone from e-bay for £47. It's on its way to me as we speak. At that price I couldn't justify spending almost double on a couple of DMT's or the DMT duo.
Cheers
Karl
I managed to get a Trend double sided stone from e-bay for £47. It's on its way to me as we speak. At that price I couldn't justify spending almost double on a couple of DMT's or the DMT duo.
Cheers
Karl
shim20
Established Member
i have been using waterstones there ok for people with alot of time on there hands, but for people who havent they are to high mantinace i think. so i will be going back to oilstones i think soon.
Philly
Established Member
Shim
How so? I use waterstones (amongst other methods) and find it strange that Folks think them time consuming or messy. All sharpening methods are messy (hey, we are grinding and polishing away metal) and involve a lubricant of some kind - the flattening procedure for waterstones takes only seconds to do and is well worth it for a: having a flat stone, and b: the speed with which a freshly dressed stone cuts.
I have my sharpening paraphernalia stored on a wooden (shop made) tray - all work is done on this, too.
Regardless of which sharpening medium you use the important thing is to have a repeatable regime which allows you to get the same (hopefully excellent!) result each time you sharpen.
Cheers
Philly
P.s. Apologies if it seems I'm having a moan at you Shim - I'm not, just passionate about sharp tools :lol:
How so? I use waterstones (amongst other methods) and find it strange that Folks think them time consuming or messy. All sharpening methods are messy (hey, we are grinding and polishing away metal) and involve a lubricant of some kind - the flattening procedure for waterstones takes only seconds to do and is well worth it for a: having a flat stone, and b: the speed with which a freshly dressed stone cuts.
I have my sharpening paraphernalia stored on a wooden (shop made) tray - all work is done on this, too.
Regardless of which sharpening medium you use the important thing is to have a repeatable regime which allows you to get the same (hopefully excellent!) result each time you sharpen.
Cheers
Philly
P.s. Apologies if it seems I'm having a moan at you Shim - I'm not, just passionate about sharp tools :lol:
paulm
IG paulm_outdoors
Left the two bars of honing soap above the oil filled rad in the workshop all last week and no real difference, both still as hard as a rock and therefore effectively useless for stropping. ](*,)
Undecided whether to grate and dissolve in white spirit, or melt with vaseline as per previous suggestions........ :-k
Cheers, Paul (the indecisive)
Undecided whether to grate and dissolve in white spirit, or melt with vaseline as per previous suggestions........ :-k
Cheers, Paul (the indecisive)
Paul Chapman
Established Member
Hi Paul,
I have several different grades of honing compound (including the Clifton one) which are all kept in my (sometimes very cold) garage workshop. I've just been out there are tried wiping them all on a piece of MDF. Some (the darker ones) were softer than the others but all were perfectly useable
So I can't understand why you are having so much trouble with yours :?
Cheers :wink:
Paul
PS The softest one was the jewellers rouge (the maroon one at the bottom of the picture and the stripe on the right of the MDF) which is the one I use on my strop.
I have several different grades of honing compound (including the Clifton one) which are all kept in my (sometimes very cold) garage workshop. I've just been out there are tried wiping them all on a piece of MDF. Some (the darker ones) were softer than the others but all were perfectly useable
So I can't understand why you are having so much trouble with yours :?
Cheers :wink:
Paul
PS The softest one was the jewellers rouge (the maroon one at the bottom of the picture and the stripe on the right of the MDF) which is the one I use on my strop.
paulm
IG paulm_outdoors
Me neither Paul, but seems it's not only me, several others on the thread mentioned the same thing.
Maybe they should be kept in a plastic bag when not in use, and somewhere warm as well, don't know.
I can press them hard enough on the leather to damage/tear that but still leaves no discernible trace !
Not sure I need them now anyway with the Spyderco superfine but it's more a case of being stubborn and trying something else rather than chucking them :shock: :lol:
Thinking more about it I guess the vaseline and melting might not dry out afterwards as quick as dissolving in white spirit........ :-k
Thanks for going to the trouble of testing yours, makes me feel worse though rather than better that yours are okay :lol:
Cheers, Paul
Maybe they should be kept in a plastic bag when not in use, and somewhere warm as well, don't know.
I can press them hard enough on the leather to damage/tear that but still leaves no discernible trace !
Not sure I need them now anyway with the Spyderco superfine but it's more a case of being stubborn and trying something else rather than chucking them :shock: :lol:
Thinking more about it I guess the vaseline and melting might not dry out afterwards as quick as dissolving in white spirit........ :-k
Thanks for going to the trouble of testing yours, makes me feel worse though rather than better that yours are okay
:lol: Cheers, Paul
gidon
Established Member
Chisel my blue Clifton bar is the same. The only thing I've not tried is Chris's suggestion which I will when I get a chance.
But what does work is putting a flame to the end of the bar and then wiping it on the leather! (I use a butane grill lighter).
Think it must just be past its best - I got it a long time ago ...
Cheers
Gidon
But what does work is putting a flame to the end of the bar and then wiping it on the leather! (I use a butane grill lighter).
Think it must just be past its best - I got it a long time ago ...
Cheers
Gidon
Paul Chapman
Established Member
chisel":3a4no0wu said:
I keep most of mine in the plastic wrapper thingy they came in, but I keep the jewellers rouge in a plastic bag, wrapped up so there's not much air in it, next to my sharpening stuff. The jewellers rouge is definitely softer than the others and, being the finest abrasive, gives a very good finish on the strop. I'm able to wipe it on the strop very easily like this (you can see the stripes where I've wiped it on with virtually no pressure)
Cheers :wink:
Paul
paulm
IG paulm_outdoors
Had a go at sorting out the green soap bar this evening.
More of a housebrick consitency to be honest, nothing soap or wax like about it ! Wouldn't grate successfully, wouldn't melt even with the blowlamp !
Resorted to bashing it into bits and grinding it down with the end of a bit of timber before mixing in some vaseline.
Was still a bit of a stiff mix and had run out of vaseline so mixed in some white spirit as well and eventually after a lot of work got a decent paste that was useable and smeared thinly on the strop and greatly relieved that it works very nicely after all that effort.
Suspect the blue Clifton bar will grate or melt much more easily, and might mix in some paraffin oil I have to hand in place of vaseline, but will try that another day when I have recovered from this episode I think !
Wish I had a nice soft bar of jewellers rouge like Paul C and wouldn't have to go to this bother, but you live and learn as always ........
Cheers, Paul.
More of a housebrick consitency to be honest, nothing soap or wax like about it ! Wouldn't grate successfully, wouldn't melt even with the blowlamp !
Resorted to bashing it into bits and grinding it down with the end of a bit of timber before mixing in some vaseline.
Was still a bit of a stiff mix and had run out of vaseline so mixed in some white spirit as well and eventually after a lot of work got a decent paste that was useable and smeared thinly on the strop and greatly relieved that it works very nicely after all that effort.
Suspect the blue Clifton bar will grate or melt much more easily, and might mix in some paraffin oil I have to hand in place of vaseline, but will try that another day when I have recovered from this episode I think !
Wish I had a nice soft bar of jewellers rouge like Paul C and wouldn't have to go to this bother, but you live and learn as always ........
Cheers, Paul.
shim20
Established Member
Philly":1fk9ysc7 said:Shim
How so? I use waterstones (amongst other methods) and find it strange that Folks think them time consuming or messy. All sharpening methods are messy (hey, we are grinding and polishing away metal) and involve a lubricant of some kind - the flattening procedure for waterstones takes only seconds to do and is well worth it for a: having a flat stone, and b: the speed with which a freshly dressed stone cuts.
I have my sharpening paraphernalia stored on a wooden (shop made) tray - all work is done on this, too.
Regardless of which sharpening medium you use the important thing is to have a repeatable regime which allows you to get the same (hopefully excellent!) result each time you sharpen.
Cheers
Philly
P.s. Apologies if it seems I'm having a moan at you Shim - I'm not, just passionate about sharp tools :lol:
yer see what you are saying but when i using them at work they just seem to be hassel all the while flattening them i know its quick but its just no pratical for me at work. with the oilstone if used right will take longer to "hollow" and you can get just the same results going through the diffrent grades. it probally just me :lol:
Philly
Established Member
Fair point - I just find having all the gear set out on a tray its not a big hassle to do.
Cheers
Philly
Cheers
Philly
shim20
Established Member
maybe im going about it wrong??? as i have a tub with the 800and 1200 stone in in water all the time and the super fine on the side. maybe if i was more organised took some time to make a tray with it all on would not be so bad will give this ago first see if it helps.
Vormulac
Established Member
andy king":25evk8p3 said:
Sorry for digging up an old(ish) thread, I've been away for a couple of months and I'm catching up!
I have been put off changing from waterstones to diamond stones as I bought the Trend double sided diamond stone at the Ally Pally show last year, and within about six weeks of extremely light use one side had shed most of its diamond! An £80 paperweight that made me a little twitchy about shelling out for the same thing from another manufacturer. Am I the only person this has happened to?
woodbloke
Established Member
V - I use the DMT stones and they loose the initial 'shine' after a few goes (in other words, they cut too fiercely to begin with) so although my extra-fine appears to be a bit bald and smooth, there's plenty there to cut with so if your stone still cuts (but not as well as it was when it was brand spanking) then that's probably how it was intended to be. On the other hand, if it don't cut at all... - Rob
