Mortise & Tenon

[throbscottle]

I thought pitch pine was extinct? (all cut down for railway sleepers and telegraph poles)

 

[Rewound]

I thought pitch pine was extinct? (all cut down for railway sleepers and telegraph poles)

i think its finished as a commercially grown timber - but lots to be reclaimed. the stuff I'm using is from some old school lockers that I rescued from a skip - all free

 

[MorrisWoodman12]

until it dries again

I've an ancient tamper the head of which has always been a little loose. It had become extremely loose a couple of years ago when I went to use it so just put it into a bucket of water for a day or two. Nice and tight! It has now become as loose as it has always been so the bucket trick does last a few years.
Have fun
Martin

 

[Rewound]

I've an ancient tamper the head of which has always been a little loose. It had become extremely loose a couple of years ago when I went to use it so just put it into a bucket of water for a day or two. Nice and tight! It has now become as loose as it has always been so the bucket trick does last a few years.
Have fun
Martin

if the bucket had a diluted PVA in it (6:1 , 10:1) I wonder if the wood would shrink back as much
(I feel an experiment coming on)

 

[Jacob]

.... Personally I don't have a decent chisel ....

They are very cheap and there are tons available 2nd hand. Why struggle away without basic tools?

 

[throbscottle]

Oh I do have chisels, they were just very cheap! But they've done me over 20 years of occasional use and the occasions when I've needed a better one have been few and far between. Perhaps when I have a proper work-space set up I'll get some decent ones. As you say, s/h is a good source.

 

[Sam Kilby]

May as well ask while I'm here. I have three of these legs to fit onto a 100mm Ø main leg.

Obviously I am going to have to get a nice fit for the rounded edge so will have to faff for ages with chisel and sandpaper - is there n easy way - any thoughts would be most appreciated, I have done them before and its a pain in the buttocks sort of task

View attachment 186984

Either coping saw then chisels to scribe it in, which will be pretty difficult in this instance to achieve great results, (or bandsaw which would probably be fine if you trust yourself and do some relief cuts first) or I would probably prefer to offer it up to the mating piece, scribe it on with a marking knife, then use whatever method to hand to make a rectangular pocket for the shoulder. For example router and jig, chisels and router plane, or this plus chain drilling to remove the bulk.


I would probably choose router and jig, making the jig by trapping 4 bits of mdf around the leg, mitre bonding or just taping them together well, then use that new shape to make a little solid jig.

You could then faff around with wedges and clamping solution to get it sitting plane to the circular centre bit ? Or even trace the centre onto paper, and make a very quick rod for wedge size and positioning into the jig.

 

[Sam Kilby]

Either coping saw then chisels to scribe it in, which will be pretty difficult in this instance to achieve great results, (or bandsaw which would probably be fine if you trust yourself and do some relief cuts first) or I would probably prefer to offer it up to the mating piece, scribe it on with a marking knife, then use whatever method to hand to make a rectangular pocket for the shoulder. For example router and jig, chisels and router plane, or this plus chain drilling to remove the bulk.


I would probably choose router and jig, making the jig by trapping 4 bits of mdf around the leg, mitre bonding or just taping them together well, then use that new shape to make a little solid jig.

You could then faff around with wedges and clamping solution to get it sitting plane to the circular centre bit ? Or even trace the centre onto paper, and make a very quick rod for wedge size and positioning into the jig.

Forgot to mention, if I was doing the first method I would likely offer up the leg for fit and scribe the shoulder off the circular centre piece too
Would help ensure a good marking out to begin with

 

[throbscottle]

Another approach occurs to me. You could cut into the shoulders as in your original drawing, but make straight cuts instead of curved. Then create matching flats on the central piece. Less material to remove than a single flat area, though matching the angle would be harder. You avoid that fiddly curved cut though.

 

[Rewound]

I have just went back to the methods i have used in the past, stupidly time consuming, think I spent 5 hours today getting the joints correct - there has to be a better way, I would love to see a cabnet maker of yester year do these legs, had to of had a better yechnique

Getting the tennon cut properly with good shoulders is not that difficult

But it is not as simple as that, these legs have to hold the table level, and just 1 dgree out (which is tiny for woodworking) means the height is out by 8mm, so after I have made a nice fitting joint, I then have to keep adjusting it to get the height correct - all the time the joint gets slacker and slacker

and getting them level - this seems mad as well.

 

[throbscottle]

How are they held in? Chubber suggested an excellent method in post #10. I've never cut a dovetail myself but surely it's worth the effort!

I feel for you on those tiny angle errors though. Ouch.

 

[Rewound]

How are they held in? Chubber suggested an excellent method in post #10. I've never cut a dovetail myself but surely it's worth the effort!

I feel for you on those tiny angle errors though. Ouch.

That would be fantastic to dovetail them in, master cabinet maker skill set a must! I could probably do one, but unable to adjust the angle (and I doubt you could with a dovetail on the other end from the shoulder) then I just would not have that skill level

 

[throbscottle]

I think the idea is you do it accurately enough that it doesn't need adjustment. Though for mere mortals a thin wedge here or there might be ok!
I'm very impressed by the way

 

[Rewound]

Thoughts on what glue to use. The tenons have been in an out that many times they are a little slack (just tight enough to stay in place without any weight, but you could knock them out with a feather)
Do I

1. Just use PVA
2. that polyurathane expanding gorilla glue stuff
3. put a screw hole through them so as they widen and become tight when a screw is inserted, this would allow me to use PVA and get a nice tight fit (the screw would never be seen)

 

[bentontool]

Thoughts on what glue to use. The tenons have been in an out that many times they are a little slack (just tight enough to stay in place without any weight, but you could knock them out with a feather)
Do I

1. Just use PVA
2. that polyurathane expanding gorilla glue stuff
3. put a screw hole through them so as they widen and become tight when a screw is inserted, this would allow me to use PVA and get a nice tight fit (the screw would never be seen)

I would use the dreaded Epoxy...

 

[graham88]

Thoughts on what glue to use. The tenons have been in an out that many times they are a little slack (just tight enough to stay in place without any weight, but you could knock them out with a feather)
Do I

1. Just use PVA
2. that polyurathane expanding gorilla glue stuff
3. put a screw hole through them so as they widen and become tight when a screw is inserted, this would allow me to use PVA and get a nice tight fit (the screw would never be seen)

PVA is water based so does tend to make wood swell. Try lightly wetting the joints and see if that uncompresses the fibres getting your joint nice and snug again. If it does then continue with the normal wood glue.

 

[Rewound]

PVA is water based so does tend to make wood swell. Try lightly wetting the joints and see if that uncompresses the fibres getting your joint nice and snug again. If it does then continue with the normal wood glue.

as in just dampen them, leave them overnight to dry out then see if they are tight again?

or do you mean dampen and glue at the same time?

 

[graham88]

Dampen and allow to dry. It will tell you whether the joint will tighten up again or not. Takes very little water to make wood swell so either a fine spray bottle or just dipping your finger in a cup of water and wiping it on the wood is enough.