Mortice machine.

[Fat ferret]

Just cut thirty inch by 2 by 3 mortices in 3x3 softwood for some gates I am making. Using a corded drill and chisel. Took all afternoon (hammer) .

I am doing quite a lot of this and want a mortice machine. I have used a router in the past but prefer the drill method. Most of my mortices are 1/2", 3/4" or 1" so I take it I need a big bolted to the floor jobbie. It would get quite a bit of use for table legs, doors, gates and other big joinery.

What should I look for in a second hand machine? How much should I pay and for what.

 

[custard]

I'm seeing a lot of morticers for sale and the prices are coming down, I guess the launch of the big Domino machine has meant many workshops are concluding the morticer is just taking up space.

You can get a good used Sedgwick 571, single phase or three phase, for £500-700. Which will handle 1" in softwood but struggle beyond 3/4" in oak. For 1" in oak, day in day out, you really need one of the bigger morticers, ideally with a vibrating head, but I've only ever seen these in three phase.

 

[Fat ferret]

Phase? What does this mean? Mostly need it for red pine and larch with some green oak.

 

[custard]

Phase? What does this mean? Mostly need it for red pine and larch with some green oak.

Electricity supply, three phase is an industrial supply, 415 volts, it's a common requirement for larger woodworking kit.

Green oak is much easier to mortice than dry oak, the Sedgwick 571 is a bit of an industry standard for smaller commercial workshops, but there are plenty of similar sized alternatives and good tooling is a great equaliser when it comes to morticing machines!

 

[Fat ferret]

Ah right, thanks. Yes green oak is lovely to mortice. It makes the easiest end grain shavings ever. I sometimes use it for gates and fencing. Rarely work any harder woods.

I want single phase if possible then. What about machines that have been converted from hand powered ones? I see a few of these but suspect it depends who did the converting!

How useful are the hand powered ones anyway? Quicker than corded drill and chisel.

I am in no rush to buy and will wait for a good machine/price. Just need to know what to look for.

 

[PAC1]

There is an urban myth that you can get a Sedgwick for £500. I am not saying you cannot but I gave up waiting for it to turn up and bought a Record chiwanese which is the same as Axminsters and several others. Very happy with it. It would eat 1" softwood mortises for breakfast. I have been cutting 3/4" mortises in oak with no problem. It is very solid, quiet and plenty of depth to the maximum timber size

 

[blackrodd]

If you are looking to cut large, deep mortice's quickly and cleanly in green oak framing and doors, softwood, It may well pay you to look at a chain morticer.
Not big money, several makes including Makita make them, second hand on Fleabay at £500.onwards.
Several vids on u tube.
I used one in a gate and hurdle shop, very fast and accurate, designed for this very job in green wood work.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-7104l-chain-morticer
Regards Rodders

 

[Fat ferret]

Right looks like the chain morticer only cuts through mortices or round bottomed ones, am I right? Not really a problem.

A lot of my morticing would be 1/2". Can't remember last time I went smaller.

 

[James-1986]

The Sedgwick isn't heavy duty enough to deal with big sections, roller stands would help but the table is small and it is light weight at 170KG. I used one for a company I worked for and even door stiles were a pain if someone nicked the roller stands! I've got a single phase Cooksley which is much heavier and better engineered than the sedgwick, but that has the same limitations, however I have become attached to the old thing so it sits there and gets used for little jobs.

A chain cuts far faster and cleaner than a chisel, however the cost of buying the chain sets new is eye watering. So its always good to go with a machine that comes with lots of tooling.

If you buy a digital phase converter you can start looking at bigger machines. I've got a Robinson SL/E combined chain and chisel. Large table and weighs about 850KG so its not going to tip over. Its good having the combination, as you use the chain to cut the majority of the mortice and the chisel to clean out any corners. Cooksley and Wadkin also made chain/chisel morticers where you change a component on the motor to use the different tooling, whilst not as efficient as the combination machine it is more compact.

I paid just under £500 for my SL/E at auction and got all the tooling in a separate lot. It has fallen over onto concrete at some point in its life, however the damage is mainly cosmetic. Buying machines can be a minefield, so many lemons out there (I own a few...)

 

[blackrodd]

Right looks like the chain morticer only cuts through mortices or round bottomed ones, am I right? Not really a problem.

A lot of my morticing would be 1/2". Can't remember last time I went smaller.

Yep! but you'd just nip the two corners off the tenon to suit the mortice's small round.
Rodders

 

[wallace]

Avoid the smaller machines, bench top ones. I had an axminster one and hated it. If you have the space get something old and heavy. I have an old whitehead which is a pleasure to use. Morticers don't have big motors so not expensive to get a phase converter. I payed £150 for mine

 

[dickm]

The Multico PM12 is certainly not an idustrial machine, but works well-enough up to 3/4", so don't dismiss benchtop machines out of hand. As others have said, the crucial thing is support for the timber so it's not trying to tip the machine. Plus, of course decent chisels and care in sharpening.

 

[Fat ferret]

The Sedgwick isn't heavy duty enough to deal with big sections, roller stands would help but the table is small and it is light weight at 170KG. I used one for a company I worked for and even door stiles were a pain if someone nicked the roller stands! I've got a single phase Cooksley which is much heavier and better engineered than the sedgwick, but that has the same limitations, however I have become attached to the old thing so it sits there and gets used for little jobs.

A chain cuts far faster and cleaner than a chisel, however the cost of buying the chain sets new is eye watering. So its always good to go with a machine that comes with lots of tooling.

If you buy a digital phase converter you can start looking at bigger machines. I've got a Robinson SL/E combined chain and chisel. Large table and weighs about 850KG so its not going to tip over. Its good having the combination, as you use the chain to cut the majority of the mortice and the chisel to clean out any corners. Cooksley and Wadkin also made chain/chisel morticers where you change a component on the motor to use the different tooling, whilst not as efficient as the combination machine it is more compact.

I paid just under £500 for my SL/E at auction and got all the tooling in a separate lot. It has fallen over onto concrete at some point in its life, however the damage is mainly cosmetic. Buying machines can be a minefield, so many lemons out there (I own a few...)

Lots of interest so far but what I really want to know I how to avoid buying a lemon! What should I look for?

 

[7sheds]

For what it's worth I have just added a morticer to my hobby workshop. It's a bit crowded and I have to shuffle the bigger machines around to get enough space for long work pieces so industrial machines are out. After a lot of googling I settled on a Rutland machine - 1/2 hp, sliding table. I haven't used one before so I was a bit surprised how much force was required to get it to push a 3/8" chisel into pine. Nominally the machine can do 12mm in hardwood or 16mm in soft. Perhaps one of you could advise on whether a decent set of chisels is likely to work better than the one that came with the machine.

The machine is nice and solid - 43kg and the sliding parts run on adjustable dovetail guides so no detectable wobble.

 

[John15]

7sheds - The chisels need to be sharp. I bought a sharpening bit from Axminster to try out. Not much money and it does a reasonable job but not fantastic. I think I get a better job with a file.

John

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I've only a small Rexon bench jobbie with Screwfix chisels. I spent a while sharpening and polishing the bit and the chisel, and it's surprising the difference it makes to performance.

 

[PAC1]

As I said Record. I have te FM25 which is a floor standing Morticer that weighs 150 kg. it will eat 25mm softwood Mortice and 3/4 hardwood. It comes with adapters for all the different collar sizes. It has a good clamps and rack and pinion adjustment on the table so it is easy to set up and quick in use. The only complaint I have is that the power lead is too short as I have mine on wheels so I can move it into the middle of the shop for cutting Morticer for large doors. I bought some Wealdon Morticer chisels for it which are good quality.

 

[Benchwayze]

I wish I had space for a stand-alone morticer.
I don't, so I have an Axminster bench morticer. Lightweight, but copes well with anything the average amateur would throw at it.

The maximum I cut with that machine is 1/2" wide. I could always move the fence, and make extra cuts to go wider. For wider mortices in hardwood, I use a 1/2" router, with two fences and an appropriate up-cut bit.

My morticer also converts to a single-speed drill.

HTH


John

 

[RogerP]

A really good chisel will transform a cheap morticer which usually come supplied with very poor ones.