Mock ye not !!

[Jacob]

.......Alan Peters, James Krenov, Ernest Joyce, Robert Wearing, David Charlesworth, Robert Ingham, Tom Kealy a........

An odd list. There's a lot more to the world of design and woodwork than this list of names - familiar mainly to woodwork magazine readers, but not that well known elsewhere I think.
I think you should get out more!

 

[Jacob]

........
Jacob the time saving bit is, you just change the blade, sharpening three blades at a time is time saving, doing most tasks in batch form is time saving, I think industry bears this out. ......

Wouldn't save me any time at all, I can only do one at a time. Do they have a jig to hold 3 blades or something? Can't see the point. In fact I like the sharpening break - it's just a natural part of the process.

 

[MIGNAL]

You do derision pretty good don't you Mark W. Manic, laughable and now people wetting themselves.
I know what the Mark is. I've also got a pretty good idea of what the W stands for!

 

[G S Haydon]

That's an interesting link Mark. I had not seen any advertising yet. Looks like serious money and time has been invested in the advert. Are the training videos presented in the same way?

 

[mark w]

Please enlighten me Mignal.
Odd list! for magazine readers only! Jacob you always ignore the point and come out with something like that, quite pointless.
A jig for three blades, mmm, an email to Veritas on its way.

 

[mark w]

I`m not sure GS I have not purchased them. I wonder who directed the trailer.

 

[mark w]

I just re-read your post Jacob, Alan Peters, James Krenov, not well known, clearly you need to get out more.
Let me try out a few more on you Jacob, David Barron, Tom Fidgen, Rob Cosman, John Makepeace, Chippy Minton do any of these names ring a bell?

 

[woodbrains]

I just re-read your post Jacob, Alan Peters, James Krenov, not well known, clearly you need to get out more.

Hello,

Careful with lists like that, it brings the worst out of Jacob. He knows who they are full well, I mentioned them a couple of times and invoked the wrath of the trolls. Especially Krenov, who Jacob knows was my teacher, but still tells me what he does and how he worked. Now if that isn't armchair theorising in the shadow of someone who knew the man a little bit, I don't know what is?
Mike.

 

[mark w]

Woodbrains, you mean Jacob was only acting ignorant, fetch him an Oscar.
Krenov was your teacher, please tell me more. How did you get to be taught by him?

 

[Cottonwood]

By the way Paul Sellers told me he has never heard of David Charlesworth, says it all to me, far to insular.

"Far too insular" LOL the woodworking media industry is too insular, too narrow, increasingly predictable...
I bet P Follansbee would freak you out Mark! too messy too rough too imperfect But-his work has tons of character....which I dont see in much of the allegedly "high end" cabinet stuff-which most folk cant afford anyway..And just because someone is technically proficient, doesnt guarantee they are inspired. Too many of these self appointed designer-makers dont seem to have much of a clue about forms (except possibly J Krenov, he is GOOD in that respect) Thats why they rely on "precision", exotics, metals, fancy efx weird stuff etc to create a sensation. LOL Giimson and the barnsleys, tried to elevate vernacular peasant forms into high art, sets the stage for the post ww2 scandinavian "design boom", then ultimately ikea.... :lol:

 

[Trafalgar]

Krenov was your teacher, please tell me more. How did you get to be taught by him?

He taught hundreds of people: http://new.crfinefurniture.com/james-krenov/

 

[mark w]

Thanks for that CS, =D>

 

[iNewbie]

That's an interesting link Mark. I had not seen any advertising yet. Looks like serious money and time has been invested in the advert. Are the training videos presented in the same way?

He got it out at 4 mins in - call the sock police...

Judas!

 

[Jacob]

I just re-read your post Jacob, Alan Peters, James Krenov, not well known, clearly you need to get out more.
Let me try out a few more on you Jacob, David Barron, Tom Fidgen, Rob Cosman, John Makepeace, Chippy Minton do any of these names ring a bell?

Certainly do - part of that same axis of the closed world of the woodwork media fashion circus, except for Chippy Minton :roll: . Does Cosman make things I thought he was just a demonstrator?*
Makepeace is better known outside the mags and might just make it into histories of design.
It's odd reading your stuff - you seem to have your finger on all the buttons of that peculiar scene, including fashionable tool makers Lie neilsen, Veritas.
Like it or not it has a strong identity. Are they all freemasons or something? I might make a note of your lists for future reference!

You need to get out more methinks.

PS *come to think does Charlesworth make things? I don't recall seeing anything anywhere.

 

[woodbrains]

LOL Giimson and the barnsleys, tried to elevate vernacular peasant forms into high art, sets the stage for the post ww2 scandinavian "design boom", then ultimately ikea.... :lol:

Hello,

A spurious speculation leading to nonsensical inferences, I'm afraid. The English Arts and Crafts movement was a move away from Victorian mass produced tat, but neither was it Victorian high style. It was pure honest craftsmanship and simple functional design. Only hindsight made this design movement high art; the Barnsleys et al, were just honest craftsmen making their way.

What is historical fact, however, is that Karl Malmsten, James Krenov's teacher, saw an exhibition of English Arts and Crafts furniture when it travelled Europe. Malmsten was so taken with the movement ( before it found acceptance in Britain, incidentally) it influenced the way he worked and ultimately taught his students, including Krenov. It is not too much to speculate that English Arts and Crafts actually had an influential effect on the American crafts movement from the 1960s till present, since Krenov was an important exponent in America when he moved to live there. Modern American art furniture actually has indirect links with Gibson, Barnsley etc.

Ikea's provenance has more to do with Bauhaus and the modernist movement and industrialism; nothing to do with Arts and Crafts, whatsoever.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

.....
Ikea's provenance has more to do with Bauhaus and the modernist movement and industrialism; nothing to do with Arts and Crafts, whatsoever.

Mike.

Not so. The Bauhaus was highly influenced by the English arts n crafts movement. Arguably they took it forwards from the rather static, closed, gentrified and romantic movement which it was in Britain (and still is!). By being open to, and trying to integrate all the arts, architecture, crafts, and industry, it turned into a design power house and was highly influential in the modern movement and modern design as we know it (including IKEA). The english arts n crafts stayed still, tweedy gents wittering about dovetails etc contributing nothing to modern design in Britain which came instead from industry (Brunel, Paxton et al) or from abroad (Mackintosh, art nouveau etc).

he Barnsleys et al, were just honest craftsmen making their way.

No they weren't they were "gentry" dabbling in vernacular and unable to recognise the quality of the real vernacular art and craft which surrounded them at the time. The continental movements were far more radical, progressive, democratic and inclusive.

 

[woodbrains]

.....
Ikea's provenance has more to do with Bauhaus and the modernist movement and industrialism; nothing to do with Arts and Crafts, whatsoever.

Mike.

Not so. The Bauhaus was highly influenced by the English arts n crafts movement. Arguably they took it forwards from the rather static, closed, gentrified and romantic movement which it was in Britain (and still is!). By being open to, and trying to integrate all the arts, architecture, crafts, and industry, it turned into a design power house and was highly influential in the modern movement and modern design as we know it (including IKEA). The english arts n crafts stayed still, tweedy gents wittering about dovetails etc contributing nothing to modern design in Britain which came instead from industry (Brunel, Paxton et al) or from abroad (Mackintosh, art nouveau etc).

Hello,

You have just agreed with me, haven't you? Arts and Crafts, by nature, cannot use industrial processes, Bauhaus relied on it.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

.....
Ikea's provenance has more to do with Bauhaus and the modernist movement and industrialism; nothing to do with Arts and Crafts, whatsoever.

Mike.

Not so. The Bauhaus was highly influenced by the English arts n crafts movement. Arguably they took it forwards from the rather static, closed, gentrified and romantic movement which it was in Britain (and still is!). By being open to, and trying to integrate all the arts, architecture, crafts, and industry, it turned into a design power house and was highly influential in the modern movement and modern design as we know it (including IKEA). The english arts n crafts stayed still, tweedy gents wittering about dovetails etc contributing nothing to modern design in Britain which came instead from industry (Brunel, Paxton et al) or from abroad (Mackintosh, art nouveau etc).

Hello,

You have just agreed with me, haven't you? Arts and Crafts, by nature, cannot use industrial processes, Bauhaus relied on it.

Mike.

The Bauhaus didn't distinguish between craft processes and industrial processes and expected them to feed from one another - this was their strength and was an astonishing success. It only flourished for 13 years or so but was perhaps the greatest single influence on modern design.
The arts n crafts was always a bit blind to production processes and had a romantic view of craft processes as somehow different and special - this is it weakness.
NB they are all industrial processes and craft traditions extend throughout industry and other institutions in many ways.

 

[Cottonwood]

Woodbrain, can I ask, what do you mean by Tat, or even victorian Tat? Is it a good or bad thing?

LOL its ironic dont you think, some of the designers with the best feel for sound form have NOT been the designer maker handicraft ones, but those who made designs to be mass produced (even if in small exclusive batches) by machines. Eg Eames, Aalto, Wegner, etc Look at the Barecelona chair-a modern classic & borrows the essence of its form from the greek klismos...And even in the modern present day, have you checked out the wogg 50 chair, its an awesome cnc form, as is Konstantin Grcic's Medici chair. What about the Norma chairs from "unto this last" in London, essentially derived from Egyptian forms. The power of these pieces is in their form, no need for exotics, inlay, gold/silver/platinum etc etc. Just sound classic forms executed in ordinary woods....makes some of the stuff from some of the makers listed above look positively tired, banal and attention seeking!

 

[woodbrains]

]Not so. The Bauhaus was highly influenced by the English arts n crafts movement. Arguably they took it forwards from the rather static, closed, gentrified and romantic movement which it was in Britain (and still is!). By being open to, and trying to integrate all the arts, architecture, crafts, and industry, it turned into a design power house and was highly influential in the modern movement and modern design as we know it (including IKEA). The english arts n crafts stayed still, tweedy gents wittering about dovetails etc contributing nothing to modern design in Britain which came instead from industry (Brunel, Paxton et al) or from abroad (Mackintosh, art nouveau etc).

The Bauhaus didn't distinguish between craft processes and industrial processes and expected them to feed from one another - this was their strength and was an astonishing success. It only flourished for 13 years or so but was perhaps the greatest single influence on modern design.
The arts n crafts was always a bit blind to production processes and had a romantic view of craft processes as somehow different and special - this is it weakness.
NB they are all industrial processes and craft traditions extend throughout industry and other institutions in many ways.

Hello,

Thanks, but I don't need a treatise on Bauhaus. And you are still agreeing with my original statement. Except for the bit where you say they are all industrial processes. Arts and Crafts wasn't and isn't at it's core. This is a fundamental difference and the reason why they are both distinct and different design movements. The clue is in the different names they have!

Mike.