MFT Question

[Mark18PLL]

Thanks for all of your replies, very helpful as usual.
So i have a Parf Sytem mk2 that i purchased some time ago but never used. I took off my worktop (mdf), this is being replaced and used the parf system on it to see how difficult it is and will use this to see how it works for me and if i need it any bigger/smaller or less holes etc, it was really easy to do and did not take long at all.

I know some have mentioned not to use mdf but if i varnish it, this should give good protection i would think., also if coating it would you still use mrmdf and which varnish would you recommend? im thinking a rub on varnish but not sure which brand as they all seem water based.

 

[petermillard]

Thanks Peter... those 20mm dogs and other stuff are so useful, on the workbench as well as for sheet stuff.
----------------
Re the new fencedogs fence - the flagstops - (again v.useful) - do they fit in your Oozenest 40 20 moulding please?

Yes, it’s all based on the same v-groove extrusion.

 

[petermillard]

...also if coating it would you still use mrmdf and which varnish would you recommend? im thinking a rub on varnish but not sure which brand as they all seem water based.

Yes, MRMDF is a much better quality board all around, for not much more money. I coated my MFT top with a hard wax oil, decided Indisnt like the colour so I stained it, and waxed it again - worked pretty well. Other MRMDF benchtops are coated just with a water-based satin finish flooring lacquer, I’ve stain. They probably need replacing soon, they’ve been down ~15 years or so...

 

[Boxer]

I have a workbench in my garage and purchased the UJK part guide system so i can make my own mft. I have a 11ft workbench, so i am wondering if i should replace some of the top with the MFT and then have a separate sheet of material to cover it over. Also under the top i currently have lengths of 70mm x 40mm beneath the top as support, the only problem i can see with this is that i will not have any gap underneath for clamps to go through the holes and not sure is the dogs need to protrude underneath.

Thanks

Mark

Here's my own bench. It was going to have a traditional top but I changed my mind half way through (Peter Millard has a lot to answer for!). So I bolted on an eBay bought MFT top. Yes it's small but it works and is serving me well until I get a bigger shop. What you're proposing is my ideal bench.

 

[kyanther I]

I used mrmdf and laminated it. I resently remade the top with

the parf guide 2 system and now its dead on, works like a dream.

 

[Spectric]

Hi all

Have looked at the Parf guide system and these worktops with lots of holes, and can see some uses such as temporary retention of workpieces whilst assembling and one of the best I have seen the guy had his router mounted in it and had a great jig for making radius guides. But I must be missing something, what is the best task these systems can help someone do? I have enough problems loosing things like screws and fixings as it is without them droping through holes in a worktop.

 

[pe2dave]

I have a constant bench height of 810mm / 32” throughout, and the MFT is set On a low shelf to match that. HTH P

Thanks Peter, didn't realise just how popular [famous?] you were.
Agreed, daft youtube don't say 'this post' (especially with the number of video's you have) when they notify you.
Sorry if I appear to be bugging you, not my intention.

I did think, with the height of your saw, the height may be less than most bench heights.
My bench is closer to 39", so that's quite a drop. Trying to get a decent length at 32" would be a struggle in my garage without
starting from scratch!
I'm tending towards a 2 or 3 trestle solution, with CNC MFT, track, saw and rail square as a starting point.
Again, thanks Peter.

 

[petermillard]

Thanks Peter...
Sorry if I appear to be bugging you, not my intention.

Not at all, but it sometimes can take a little while for to respond! Most irritating part is that most questions - not yours re bench height - are actually answered in the video, if only folks would take the time to watch & listen.

I did think, with the height of your saw, the height may be less than most bench heights.
My bench is closer to 39", so that's quite a drop. Trying to get a decent length at 32" would be a struggle in my garage without
starting from scratch!
I'm tending towards a 2 or 3 trestle solution, with CNC MFT, track, saw and rail square as a starting point.
Again, thanks Peter.

Sounds like a plan! Yes, my benches are a bit lower than most, and I could probably do with them being a bit lower tbh, as much due to ceiling height as anything.

 

[pe2dave]

<grin/> Due to ceiling height? So, given St Pauls as a roof, are they at a 'convenient' height @petermillard ?
Currently wrestling with reducing 4 trestles (James Krenov idea) down to 3, for the blue moon when I need
to deal with a full sheet. For me, 1200x800 will do more than the 80%

 

[shed9]

For reference, I've used MDF tops for the odd workbench in the past, I used a paste wax on each occasion which worked a treat to keep it from absorbing too much moisture.

 

[Droogs]

Bench height is an area that few people really give any thought to when they are setting up their wksp. The main mistake is that people do not realise that from an ergonomic viewpoint the working height of a bench must be different if you are using modern power tools or handtools. Their is even a need for a difference if you are using metal or wooden planes, especially if over a long period of time. The height of your wrist is a good reference datum to calculate what you need, depending on the way you will work

 

[pe2dave]

For reference, I've used MDF tops for the odd workbench in the past, I used a paste wax on each occasion which worked a treat to keep it from absorbing too much moisture.

You don't say where your workshop is? Shed, unheated garage? Heated indoors?
I'd be happy with MRMDF ... but my wife may not when I moved into the dining room ;-)

 

[pe2dave]

Bench height is an area that few people really give any thought to when they are setting up their wksp. The main mistake is that people do not realise that from an ergonomic viewpoint the working height of a bench must be different if you are using modern power tools or handtools. Their is even a need for a difference if you are using metal or wooden planes, especially if over a long period of time. The height of your wrist is a good reference datum to calculate what you need, depending on the way you will work

The bench should be at wrist height? N inches above it?
I agree with your point about planes and (such as) track saws, I'd be horrified working at my wrist height (e.g. my vice at that height).
Would you expand on that please?

 

[shed9]

You don't say where your workshop is? Shed, unheated garage? Heated indoors?
I'd be happy with MRMDF ... but my wife may not when I moved into the dining room ;-)

Insulated partially heated and dehumidified workshop.

 

[Droogs]

The old fashioned way was to get a surface at wrist height and then try it out and adjust up or down once you got a sore back. . Everyone has arms, legs and torso in different proportions so you need to test and adjust. What you are looking to do is to try and get all your level surfaces at the same height for the various tools you use based on your own proportions. IE, if you do a lot of work using metal handtools then set you bench to the height that is comfortable once you have a 3/4" plank on it and can plane continuously using say a #4 for half an hour without back ache. Then position the rest of your machines etc so that their slides/crossplates/work surfaces etc not the bottom of their stands are level with that. If you use wooden tools more then the bench will be around 4" lower than for metal handtools. If you are a machine tool woodworker then in general the bench would be around 3" higher than for metal handtools. All to do with your own ergonomics but that's the basics of it.

Things like vices for filling metal (for me) have always felt more comfortable at an even higher position. I have an 8" block under my metal vice which gets clamped to the normal bench when I need to do a lot of filing. Same with my scroll saws they are nearly at chest high for the working surface.

hth

 

[pe2dave]

The old fashioned way was to get a surface at wrist height and then try it out and adjust up or down once you got a sore back. . Everyone has arms, legs and torso in different proportions so you need to test and adjust. What you are looking to do is to try and get all your level surfaces at the same height for the various tools you use based on your own proportions. IE, if you do a lot of work using metal handtools then set you bench to the height that is comfortable once you have a 3/4" plank on it and can plane continuously using say a #4 for half an hour without back ache. Then position the rest of your machines etc so that their slides/crossplates/work surfaces etc not the bottom of their stands are level with that. If you use wooden tools more then the bench will be around 4" lower than for metal handtools. If you are a machine tool woodworker then in general the bench would be around 3" higher than for metal handtools. All to do with your own ergonomics but that's the basics of it.

Things like vices for filling metal (for me) have always felt more comfortable at an even higher position. I have an 8" block under my metal vice which gets clamped to the normal bench when I need to do a lot of filing. Same with my scroll saws they are nearly at chest high for the working surface.

hth

A bit unreal IMHO? 30 years ago I spent £100 on timber to build a workbench. No way am I going to adjust that.
I don't choose the height of my drill press, X-cut etc, they're commercial products purchased over many years.

Yes,I can dream of starting all over again. But I shan't.
You don't say how wrist height helps, at all? For what tools? For what industry?
I can't afford the luxury (to me) of different heights for different tools.

 

[Droogs]

You find out what height is comfortable for you to work at for a prolonged period of time using a temporary surface that you can adjust in height by either sticking blocks under it or cutting bits off. By a period of time I mean more than half an hour of continueos work, no stopping just keep going. If your back doesn't hurt after that, then the bench is at the right height for you.

As to what industry - This is a woodwork forum, so I must be talking about being a balloonist.

In hand tools we only uses chisel based or plane based tools - no more explanation needed.

Also you don't build you permanent bench until you figure out what height you can work at

When you stand up straight with arms at your side, the height of you wrist is due to the way in which your body bends and moves (A thing called ERGONOMICS - it is how you work out the size of the stuff we use a human beings) at roughly the correct height to prevent injury when using hand tools - planes and chisels and things like that for ballooning obviously

 

[Lonsdale73]

before you make or do anything, I would think about exactly what you want to achieve.

I can't justify the price of the full MFT, so I have been looking at the options for making a top since I was introduced to benchdogs.co.uk through Peter Millard (there is also a discount code "10minuteworkshop" which gives you 5% off).

most people used the mft for accurate cross cutting, and for cutting pieces to the same length. For angle cuts, from what I have seen most people dont need or use the protractor of the full MFT, but may want to do a few 45 degree cuts at times.

I am going to get the bench dogs fence and fence dogs system. This only needs a couple of dog holes for the fence, and a couple of extras. Say 1 row at the back of your bench top. For 45's, you could use dogs, so you need a diagonal row of accurate ones, and for straight cuts, an accurate row of 90 degree ones. Beyond that, I think that the rest are unnecessary.

Wilmotts Rolling MFT Station

I bought one of the CNC tops from ebay - Wrexham as I recall - and incorporated it into a Wilmotts-style bench, modified to accomodate the larger sized top. Still going strong six years on. I also had one hinged to the wall that would fold up and out of the way when not needed.

 

[petermillard]

<grin/> Due to ceiling height? So, given St Pauls as a roof, are they at a 'convenient' height @petermillard ?
Currently wrestling with reducing 4 trestles (James Krenov idea) down to 3, for the blue moon when I need
to deal with a full sheet. For me, 1200x800 will do more than the 80%

Also absurdly long arms. See! Yes, ceiling aside, I’m very happy with the bench height.

 

[pe2dave]

No need to shout @Droogs.