Mentor Wanted

[NorthernSteve]

I posted the below in the wanted section a few days ago. It did not garner much response, albeit the responses it did get were helpful, so I am trying it here (slightly adapted), in the hope that it gains some more exposure.
As a novice woodworker, I have greatly benefitted from the advice provided in response to the questions I have posed in this forum, so thank you to those who have provided input. Like most newcomers, my knowledge and skill is limited, and I am confident that there is much I don't know that exists. My ambition is high, I want to become a recognised maker of high quality boxes (not for vanity but because this means I am doing something well, I have attained a level of skill and people like what I make). My dedication is high, as is my available time.
Recent answers to my questions have illustrated to me that without 'top cover', this journey is going to be harder and longer than it could be. I may not even make my destination. For this reason I am looking for a woodworking mentor. Ideally based within travelling distance (I am 12 miles north of Manchester City Centre). Someone who is well versed in the craft, who has made the journey and is both highly knowledgeable and highly skilled. In return, I am will to compensate said person financially and/or through offering/applying my experience as an entrepreneurial business man and property investor. I hope we could become friends, maybe travel to the odd woodworking show or two and assist one another as opportunity may allow. Who knows where things could go. So, if you fit the bill, or know of someone who does, please let me know. Thanks

 

[Steliz]

I think there is a limit to the knowledge you need to make very good quality boxes and that can easily be learned by looking at the examples on websites like this or there are plenty of Youtube videos and, of course, by practising. There are some great examples on this site and I've made a few myself. There is also a great tutorial by Custard on how to line boxes with suede which I found very useful.

A lot of the members on here are probably like me in that they consider themselves in a constant state of learning and maybe don't feel qualified to be a mentor. I used to live in Warrington and I'd have been happy to meet up and tell you what I know, such that it is, but that wouldn't have taken very long.

Maybe, instead of looking for a single mentor, you could use the collective knowledge on this forum and have many mentors. Ask questions and just give it a go. There will be plenty of advice offered, some of it might be useful.

 

[hennebury]

A teacher may be a great help or a great hinderance. While waiting for a mentor you can learn much on your own, if you are the type that is driven to learn. Woodworking is not complicated, though many make it so. There is wood, cutting tools and relationships to understand, the rest is just applying them to various situations.

 

[HOJ]

It is very difficult to be a mentor, I have in the past, and still do, to a limited extent, (with individuals and also at a mens shed).

In more recent times with the access people have to online information, they already have a preconceived knowledge, without the skill, which is problematic to get past, leading to frustrations, as they want to use/quote what they have seen/read, which, in most cases is different to the way I work.

That can be evidenced even on here, when a question is asked, with the range of different answers that follow.

I would suggest finding and doing a structured training course specifically aimed at your area of interest.

 

[Spectric]

In more recent times with the access people have to online information, they already have a preconceived knowledge, without the skill, which is problematic to get past, leading to frustrations, as they want to use/quote what they have seen/read, which, in most cases is different to the way I work.

I can see that, often easier to start with a blank canvas. Maybe rather than look for specific help with the end objective of making boxes, first learn about the tools that are going to be required and then look at the actual box making aspect.

 

[deema]

I might be easier to understand what you would like help with eg. machine use and setup, hand tool use and setup, material selection, design, sales and marketing?

 

[thetyreman]

even though I have never met him, Paul Sellers is my mentor, I just copied him and it has worked for me, you have to start with the really basic stuff though like setting up a hand plane, sharpening blades, you can't skip any of the steps, start off with small projects that are very easy and gradually build it up into more complex projects, that's the key.

 

[Oakay]

I posted the below in the wanted section a few days ago. It did not garner much response, albeit the responses it did get were helpful, so I am trying it here (slightly adapted), in the hope that it gains some more exposure.
As a novice woodworker, I have greatly benefitted from the advice provided in response to the questions I have posed in this forum, so thank you to those who have provided input. Like most newcomers, my knowledge and skill is limited, and I am confident that there is much I don't know that exists. My ambition is high, I want to become a recognised maker of high quality boxes (not for vanity but because this means I am doing something well, I have attained a level of skill and people like what I make). My dedication is high, as is my available time.
Recent answers to my questions have illustrated to me that without 'top cover', this journey is going to be harder and longer than it could be. I may not even make my destination. For this reason I am looking for a woodworking mentor. Ideally based within travelling distance (I am 12 miles north of Manchester City Centre). Someone who is well versed in the craft, who has made the journey and is both highly knowledgeable and highly skilled. In return, I am will to compensate said person financially and/or through offering/applying my experience as an entrepreneurial business man and property investor. I hope we could become friends, maybe travel to the odd woodworking show or two and assist one another as opportunity may allow. Who knows where things could go. So, if you fit the bill, or know of someone who does, please let me know. Thanks

If you can spend some time with a skilled woodworker, offering some free help in return for observing some work in progress, that can be a way of picking up a lot of new skills. The other challenge can be finding a well equipped space to work from. Sometimes people have spare bench-space available in an environment where skilled workers are already operating and you can learn from their work-flows. I have such a situation available due to having downsized my cabinet-making business but retaining my original workshop, but being near Aylesbury, that of course is not much help to yourself but it might be worth asking around in your own local area. Time is often what people are short of, but if you can find ways to at least save them the time you are costing them, it could be to mutual benefit, and maybe build friendship too.

 

[NorthernSteve]

I think there is a limit to the knowledge you need to make very good quality boxes and that can easily be learned by looking at the examples on websites like this or there are plenty of Youtube videos and, of course, by practising. There are some great examples on this site and I've made a few myself. There is also a great tutorial by Custard on how to line boxes with suede which I found very useful.

A lot of the members on here are probably like me in that they consider themselves in a constant state of learning and maybe don't feel qualified to be a mentor. I used to live in Warrington and I'd have been happy to meet up and tell you what I know, such that it is, but that wouldn't have taken very long.

Maybe, instead of looking for a single mentor, you could use the collective knowledge on this forum and have many mentors. Ask questions and just give it a go. There will be plenty of advice offered, some of it might be useful.

Hi Steliz, this forum and the responses I have had so far have been awesome. There seems to be a general willingness amongst woodworkers to assist one another, which is great. There is also as you point out, a great deal of humility. Do you have any particular 'go to' channels on YouTube? And where do I find Custard - YouTube also?
In terms of boxes, I half agree with what you say about box making, I have set my aspirations high however, and maybe for this reason I am feeling as though support would assist. Have a look at this https://www.wheathills.com , you may see where I am coming from.
Cheers

 

[Gary B]

I would recommend the Waters & Acland online course, which I am currently a member of. I think I paid £100 for 1 years sub and it has been really useful for me, particularly in tool set up, sharpening and instilling in me the importance of precision. There are 2 boxes currently on their online curriculum - a dovetailed box and a mitred pencil box, as well as tables, chests and cabinets. Crucially too, they have agreed discounts with some retailers for their students (Axminster Tools, Workshop Heaven) which means that I have saved more than I paid for the course in discounts on tool purchases, which has been very handy!

Prior to that I learnt from scratch from videos produced by Matt Estlea, who I would also recommend (he has a free online woodworking school website). There is also a dovetailed box series in one of his beginner courses on there

Cheers
Gary

 

[Sideways]

And where do I find Custard - YouTube also?

He's a professional woodworker in Southern England, very active on the forum for a while and we're grateful for the posts that he contributed. Custard stepped back because he had a real business to run unlike many youtubers who want youtube to become their business.

 

[Steliz]

This is Custards tutorial - https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/how-to-line-boxes-drawers.106375/
If you use the search function you can find plenty of examples of boxes.

On your link the things that makes them standout are the pretty woods and the imagination required to come up with a design. On top of that there is some excellent marquetry and some inlays both of which are learnable skills. If you want to make boxes that will 'turn heads' then it's all about the embellishment. Exotic woods, suede lining, inlays, decorative panels, carving etc.

 

[NorthernSteve]

A teacher may be a great help or a great hinderance. While waiting for a mentor you can learn much on your own, if you are the type that is driven to learn. Woodworking is not complicated, though many make it so. There is wood, cutting tools and relationships to understand, the rest is just applying them to various situations.

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Beautiful products Hennebury

 

[NorthernSteve]

I would recommend the Waters & Acland online course, which I am currently a member of. I think I paid £100 for 1 years sub and it has been really useful for me, particularly in tool set up, sharpening and instilling in me the importance of precision. There are 2 boxes currently on their online curriculum - a dovetailed box and a mitred pencil box, as well as tables, chests and cabinets. Crucially too, they have agreed discounts with some retailers for their students (Axminster Tools, Workshop Heaven) which means that I have saved more than I paid for the course in discounts on tool purchases, which has been very handy!

Prior to that I learnt from scratch from videos produced by Matt Estlea, who I would also recommend (he has a free online woodworking school website). There is also a dovetailed box series in one of his beginner courses on there

Cheers
Gary

Thanks Gary, I will take a look at them. Cheers

 

[poshpaws]

I would recommend the Waters & Acland online course, which I am currently a member of. I think I paid £100 for 1 years sub and it has been really useful for me, particularly in tool set up, sharpening and instilling in me the importance of precision. There are 2 boxes currently on their online curriculum - a dovetailed box and a mitred pencil box, as well as tables, chests and cabinets. Crucially too, they have agreed discounts with some retailers for their students (Axminster Tools, Workshop Heaven) which means that I have saved more than I paid for the course in discounts on tool purchases, which has been very handy!

Prior to that I learnt from scratch from videos produced by Matt Estlea, who I would also recommend (he has a free online woodworking school website). There is also a dovetailed box series in one of his beginner courses on there

Cheers
Gary

Yes the online school is fantastic but the Waters and Acland tool setup course is a must in person imho. To feel what a properly setup tools feels like.
Yes watching YT and reading online may get you there eventually but going on that course helped it click for me

 

[johnnyb]

Box making is a lovely area to work and I made many as a hobby worker.
To make a box to the highest standard with no flaws(in build and finish/fit) and working perfectly can be a stretch. You'd probably find it takes a lot more stuff/skills/techniques than you'd ever realise maybe even half a dozen craftsmen. The idea of mastering/ all of them may send one giddy. But focusing on a few aspects on each project can help. Boxes need to be very nearly perfect to be stunning. Remember how the become perfect is by using any means and methods possible. Not just the dogma of hand tools. These guys may have sanders, planers, spraybooths, large bandsaw, all needing to be tuned and working at the top of there game.
The boxes I made weren't of that standard being made by a hobbiest as single pieces. Experience, equipment and repetition. Make the same thing over and over(maybe batch a dozen out) then after a few years you will be a box maker. If after such an intense period you still love to make things is a different matter. And how you react to the inevitable batching as well.

 

[Sam Kilby]

As a wooodworking college teacher, I value face to face education, in a workshop.
I’m not suggesting you sign up for a full time course, but perhaps you can find a short course that offers what you are looking for.
Lots of small business furnituremakers offer courses, for example intro to hand tools/furnituremaking, make a workbench, make a box. Lots of these around at 3-5 days. One of the colleges I work for also offers evening classes, which would also be a good option I think.
If you can these would be your quickest path to upskilling, as they can offer corrections on technique by reviewing what you are doing, offer all the tools and equipment you need to do the tasks etc.
another route is to pay to subscribe to an online programme, waters and ackland, Paul sellers et al. The useful reason to pay is because likelihood is higher that you are being taught the most sensible content.. YouTube or free education is a bit of a minefield, and needs sifting through with a fine tooth comb to figure if it’s actually appropriate.
I suppose the third and often overlooked option is to buy some books, and/or subscribe to magazines. Again, often you will find if committed to print, it’s probably worthwhile in some way.
You might not yet have the skills to discern if the free options (YouTube) are any good, as you may not yet know the optimum techniques. If you are committed to this path, try and apply a bit of simple critical analysis to the videos, for example are the achieving the results you desire ? Are they often cutting away, and magically coming back with a better looking piece that they haven’t demonstrated ? Read some of the comments and see if people are agreeing with them etc. You can pick up all you need on your own of course, but I have no doubt it will be a longer and at times much more frustrating journey.

As people have highlighted above, I liken learning furnituremaking to learning to drive a car, it’s only difficult because you have to do everything at once ! The skills (clutch control, operating the steering wheel etc) are mixed in with knowledge (speed limits, road signs) and alongside this you have to react to what’s happening in real time.
To liken this to what you are wanting to learn, if you break down the earning into excercises (I.e focussing first on measuring and marking out, then when you can achieve this best, moving on to sawing skills only etc) you will be less overwhelmed, and your improvements will not only be faster but also more reliable.
When learning skills like above, get cheap softwood, and only be critical on the amount you are doing for a start, not the end product. It’s practicing a new skill, so don’t spend a month trying to rectify one thing, try and do it right, if it’s not right throw it in the bin and do it again, and maybe make some notes about how and why it went wrong.

Good luck !

 

[Indiana]

I posted the below in the wanted section a few days ago. It did not garner much response, albeit the responses it did get were helpful, so I am trying it here (slightly adapted), in the hope that it gains some more exposure.
As a novice woodworker, I have greatly benefitted from the advice provided in response to the questions I have posed in this forum, so thank you to those who have provided input. Like most newcomers, my knowledge and skill is limited, and I am confident that there is much I don't know that exists. My ambition is high, I want to become a recognised maker of high quality boxes (not for vanity but because this means I am doing something well, I have attained a level of skill and people like what I make). My dedication is high, as is my available time.
Recent answers to my questions have illustrated to me that without 'top cover', this journey is going to be harder and longer than it could be. I may not even make my destination. For this reason I am looking for a woodworking mentor. Ideally based within travelling distance (I am 12 miles north of Manchester City Centre). Someone who is well versed in the craft, who has made the journey and is both highly knowledgeable and highly skilled. In return, I am will to compensate said person financially and/or through offering/applying my experience as an entrepreneurial business man and property investor. I hope we could become friends, maybe travel to the odd woodworking show or two and assist one another as opportunity may allow. Who knows where things could go. So, if you fit the bill, or know of someone who does, please let me know. Thanks

The best advice I can give you is to book a few days with different people take some courses if you wish.

But most importantly. Make mistakes!
Learn by doing

 

[HOJ]

If you can spend some time with a skilled woodworker, offering some free help in return for observing some work in progress, that can be a way of picking up a lot of new skills.

I had a mature chap in my workshop last year, on this very basis, came to me with self confidence that he was more than capable in basic craft skills.

After 2 days I had to ask him to leave, an absolute calamity, a danger not only to himself but me as well, his spatial awareness was shocking, with absolutely no ability to think laterally, and about as much use as a chocolate fire guard...

 

[Indiana]

I had a mature chap in my workshop last year, on this very basis, came to me with self confidence that he was more than capable in basic craft skills.

After 2 days I had to ask him to leave, an absolute calamity, a danger not only to himself but me as well, his spatial awareness was shocking, with absolutely no ability to think laterally, and about as much use as a chocolate fire guard...

Sounds dangerous. Losing fingers aren’t the type of mistakes I’m referring to

Not everyone is cut out for it that’s very true.