Lord knows what came over me but in a fit of ... what precisely? ... I bought the damn thing while out shopping this morning - a snip at €19.99. Review with pics to follow. However, given my IT skills, this may take some little time.
Making hand planes by machine
- Thread starter AndyT
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Not sure I'd pay 20 Euros for one but only because there are probably better alternatives.
Most of these very cheap Planes can be made to cut wood. That's hardly surprising. Give a rank beginner a Clifton, Veritas et al and within a few hours they will be performing just as bad as those very cheap Planes. That's because the vast majority of a Planes performance relies on a sharp blade.
Get the blade sharp on those very cheap Planes and there's a decent chance they will cut wood to a fairly decent standard, as Mr. Wandel attests. There are a couple of other things that may upset the performance but they are usually relatively easy to rectify.
Things change a little when you are dealing with 'difficult' wood or woods that are very high on the Janka hardness scale. A planes performance can become a bit more noticeable on those types of wood. A lot of woodworkers don't deal with those types of wood though. I do but even then they only represent 30% or so of what I use. The other 70% are woods that are fairly easy to deal with, well behaved medium density European hardwoods. These are the type of hardwoods where a wooden Plane excels. I expect those cheap Planes may not have much difficulty either. Even if they don't leave the surface of these hardwoods quite as free of tearout as the more expensive Planes it is something that usually can be easily rectified with a card scraper or a bit of 180G.
Most of these very cheap Planes can be made to cut wood. That's hardly surprising. Give a rank beginner a Clifton, Veritas et al and within a few hours they will be performing just as bad as those very cheap Planes. That's because the vast majority of a Planes performance relies on a sharp blade.
Get the blade sharp on those very cheap Planes and there's a decent chance they will cut wood to a fairly decent standard, as Mr. Wandel attests. There are a couple of other things that may upset the performance but they are usually relatively easy to rectify.
Things change a little when you are dealing with 'difficult' wood or woods that are very high on the Janka hardness scale. A planes performance can become a bit more noticeable on those types of wood. A lot of woodworkers don't deal with those types of wood though. I do but even then they only represent 30% or so of what I use. The other 70% are woods that are fairly easy to deal with, well behaved medium density European hardwoods. These are the type of hardwoods where a wooden Plane excels. I expect those cheap Planes may not have much difficulty either. Even if they don't leave the surface of these hardwoods quite as free of tearout as the more expensive Planes it is something that usually can be easily rectified with a card scraper or a bit of 180G.
RogerP
Established Member
For cheap planes I've found the wooden Taiwanese ones are incredibly good - and they don't have to be pulled. In fact I now use a range of them exclusively.
That's what I mean by better alternatives! I have a couple of them. I actually use the little Taiwanese 'block Plane' frequently. In fact my Veritas Apron Plane just sits on the shelf gathering dust!
I just wish they would offer another type of blade to HSS. In fact I'm pretty sure my little Plane is something like O1. . . and a very good blade it is too.
I just wish they would offer another type of blade to HSS. In fact I'm pretty sure my little Plane is something like O1. . . and a very good blade it is too.
Carl P
Established Member
What's the make/supplier for these Taiwanese planes? Not that I need more planes of course!
Cheerio,
Carl
Cheerio,
Carl
RogerP
Established Member
Workshop Heaven, Rutlands, eBay and others.
Mujingfang. Workshop heaven do them, although not my small 'block' type Plane. It was extremely cheap direct from Hong kong but I did have to make a new wedge and work a bit on the chute.
I recently bought a Mujingfang 'Jack' plane from WH and it's very well made. It has an expensive feel to it but then again it's made from Ebony. I really just had to sharpen the blade and work a touch on the sole. That's normal for any wooden Plane. Mostly I've used it on the pull stroke, which is fine with medium density hardwoods. Harder wood like Bubinga and Ebony I push it, but that could be down to me not being accustomed to pulling planes. The HSS blades are hard to sharpen, so you have to spend much more time with the fine stuff. Of course the edge lasts much longer, so you both lose and gain. I can't get them quite as sharp as carbon blades but for the vast majority of purposes it matters not. Like many Japanese Planes they don't have chipbreakers, so you can't control tear out in the same manner as you can with Western style planes. That doesn't bother me. I don't use them as the ultimate smoother. If I'm getting some tearout I just use a metal bodied plane right at the end.
I use wooden planes the vast majority of the time. The only one I don't really get on with is the traditional coffin smoother. For some reason I find it awkward to hold and use. All the other English style Planes are perfectly fine, as are the horn handled continental. Yes, I have far too many Planes. I could quite easily sell all my metal bodied planes and just keep one as a dedicated fine smoother. Maybe one day I will do that. . .
I hope you like my rather brightly coloured Plane setting hammer. It's a 12 Oz deadblow and works very well as a setting hammer. Soft and a brass face. i think you can get them in more serene Black.
I recently bought a Mujingfang 'Jack' plane from WH and it's very well made. It has an expensive feel to it but then again it's made from Ebony. I really just had to sharpen the blade and work a touch on the sole. That's normal for any wooden Plane. Mostly I've used it on the pull stroke, which is fine with medium density hardwoods. Harder wood like Bubinga and Ebony I push it, but that could be down to me not being accustomed to pulling planes. The HSS blades are hard to sharpen, so you have to spend much more time with the fine stuff. Of course the edge lasts much longer, so you both lose and gain. I can't get them quite as sharp as carbon blades but for the vast majority of purposes it matters not. Like many Japanese Planes they don't have chipbreakers, so you can't control tear out in the same manner as you can with Western style planes. That doesn't bother me. I don't use them as the ultimate smoother. If I'm getting some tearout I just use a metal bodied plane right at the end.
I use wooden planes the vast majority of the time. The only one I don't really get on with is the traditional coffin smoother. For some reason I find it awkward to hold and use. All the other English style Planes are perfectly fine, as are the horn handled continental. Yes, I have far too many Planes. I could quite easily sell all my metal bodied planes and just keep one as a dedicated fine smoother. Maybe one day I will do that. . .
I hope you like my rather brightly coloured Plane setting hammer. It's a 12 Oz deadblow and works very well as a setting hammer. Soft and a brass face. i think you can get them in more serene Black.
Carl P
Established Member
Thanks for the info & picture - I have a hair comb the most hideous shade of green, I can always see it!
I also like wooden planes, not tried one of these yet but I will certainly look out for them now,
Cheerio,
Carl
I also like wooden planes, not tried one of these yet but I will certainly look out for them now,
Cheerio,
Carl
Woodchips2
Established Member
That was an interesting video Andy. Thanks for sharing.
Even on industrial routers they were still taking several passes cutting the rebates.
Regards Keith
Even on industrial routers they were still taking several passes cutting the rebates.
Regards Keith
Andy Kev.":1remchvf said:
Finally, the weird metal-bodied plane.
I appreciate the phots are not up to much but I couldn't take the wooden planes out of the plastic wrapping.
What do you reckon to the metal thing, though? Ever seen anything like it?
Andy, and anyone wanting to see more of how bad this plane is without needing to buy one, there was a discussion about one of its siblings over on Lumberjocks a couple of years ago: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/46228 which has some more photos.
I think I can remember reading a similar discussion somewhere where a patient woodworker actually tried out one of these, but this was the nearest I could actually find.
Andy Kev.":2lzz4hta said:
If anyone really wants to plumb the depths, you can get one with the 'Dekton' brand in the uk: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dekton-DT40210- ... B00EBRSHO4
I'm pretty sure that they all come out of the same factory; whichever yum-cha brand is on them…
Scarily enough, that's _not_ the cheapest 'new' plane I've seen - I've actually one that cost less (a wooden apron plane) en-route … I'm pretty sure it'll take some fettling to get operational, but I'm curious to see just how bad it might be… I'm pretty sure that it's made in a similar factory environment, except I suspect at the price this is one that escaped via the 'reject' chute.
Apologies for taking so long to getting around to writing this but try as I might, I couldn't find the cable for connecting the camera to the laptop until five mins ago.
First of all, the construction of the plane. The main part from which the sole and the body are formed look to be made from a single piece of sheet metal (2 mm thick) which has been bent to give the plane a “U” cross section. The sides are at 91° to the sole i.e. they lean in a bit towards the long axis of the tool. The frog appears to be welded in place. The whole plane weighs 608 gm (just a bit over 1 lb). It's
9 1/2" long and 2" wide.
There are two main problems with the sole. First, it looks as though someone started to mill it flat but got bored and left off half way through the job (see photo). This is baffling. Why start such a job and not finish it? The only solution I can come up with is that somebody has costed milling time and each plane gets x seconds, whether it needs it or not.
Second the mouth for the iron appears to have been stamped out of the metal sheet by stamping down towards the sole. I have come to this conclusion because holding a straight edge to the sole shows a gap between either the rear or the front of the plane and the mouth. In other words you can form two triangles: rear, mouth, straight edge, or front, mouth, straight edge. This of course means that you can plane with the nose of the plane and the iron touching the wood or the rear and the iron touching the wood. The stamping out is most prominent at the sides of the mouth and this probably explains the chewed up surface of the wood (pine).
The iron is essentially like an oversized spokeshave cutter. I sharpened it up without too much difficulty but all I got on a piece of pine was the roughest shavings and lots of tearout and I think this can be attributed to the stamping out of the mouth. Adjustment of the iron is via two screws (again as per a spokeshave) but I could not adjust it to get any kind of decent results. You can see from the pic that the iron is on a par with the sole in terms of manufacture.
The cap is made of thin pressed metal with a plastic-headed screw tightener. In my hands it had two settings: too loose or rock hard.
Conclusion: As it stands this tool is in my opinion useless in that it does not function as a plane. It might be that somebody with the necessary expertise could fettle it so that it could produce some kind of worthwhile results although I would be surprised if that could be done. The best use I can see for it would be to remove the iron and re-employ it in a homemade spokeshave.
So all in all a waste of €20 to anybody who is on the lookout for a plane although for purely investigative purposes like this, that could be regarded as money well spent if one wishes to know just how low manufacturers can sink. My initial reaction was to laugh it off but after a moment’s though I became a bit angry. Just imagine if a young kid gets the idea to take an interest in woodwork and asks his parents for a toolkit for his birthday. Suppose they know nothing about tools and see this plane (at what they think is an affordable price) in the DIY supermarket and they buy it for him in all innocence. The kid would end up bitterly disappointed and possibly put off woodworking for life.
I am no tool expert but the above is written in the light of my experience gained from using high quality planes. What I think would be interesting would be if anybody on here who does have the necessary expertise would be prepared to work on the thing to get the best possible performance out of it and then report the results. Any takers?
First of all, the construction of the plane. The main part from which the sole and the body are formed look to be made from a single piece of sheet metal (2 mm thick) which has been bent to give the plane a “U” cross section. The sides are at 91° to the sole i.e. they lean in a bit towards the long axis of the tool. The frog appears to be welded in place. The whole plane weighs 608 gm (just a bit over 1 lb). It's
9 1/2" long and 2" wide.
There are two main problems with the sole. First, it looks as though someone started to mill it flat but got bored and left off half way through the job (see photo). This is baffling. Why start such a job and not finish it? The only solution I can come up with is that somebody has costed milling time and each plane gets x seconds, whether it needs it or not.
Second the mouth for the iron appears to have been stamped out of the metal sheet by stamping down towards the sole. I have come to this conclusion because holding a straight edge to the sole shows a gap between either the rear or the front of the plane and the mouth. In other words you can form two triangles: rear, mouth, straight edge, or front, mouth, straight edge. This of course means that you can plane with the nose of the plane and the iron touching the wood or the rear and the iron touching the wood. The stamping out is most prominent at the sides of the mouth and this probably explains the chewed up surface of the wood (pine).
The iron is essentially like an oversized spokeshave cutter. I sharpened it up without too much difficulty but all I got on a piece of pine was the roughest shavings and lots of tearout and I think this can be attributed to the stamping out of the mouth. Adjustment of the iron is via two screws (again as per a spokeshave) but I could not adjust it to get any kind of decent results. You can see from the pic that the iron is on a par with the sole in terms of manufacture.
The cap is made of thin pressed metal with a plastic-headed screw tightener. In my hands it had two settings: too loose or rock hard.
Conclusion: As it stands this tool is in my opinion useless in that it does not function as a plane. It might be that somebody with the necessary expertise could fettle it so that it could produce some kind of worthwhile results although I would be surprised if that could be done. The best use I can see for it would be to remove the iron and re-employ it in a homemade spokeshave.
So all in all a waste of €20 to anybody who is on the lookout for a plane although for purely investigative purposes like this, that could be regarded as money well spent if one wishes to know just how low manufacturers can sink. My initial reaction was to laugh it off but after a moment’s though I became a bit angry. Just imagine if a young kid gets the idea to take an interest in woodwork and asks his parents for a toolkit for his birthday. Suppose they know nothing about tools and see this plane (at what they think is an affordable price) in the DIY supermarket and they buy it for him in all innocence. The kid would end up bitterly disappointed and possibly put off woodworking for life.
I am no tool expert but the above is written in the light of my experience gained from using high quality planes. What I think would be interesting would be if anybody on here who does have the necessary expertise would be prepared to work on the thing to get the best possible performance out of it and then report the results. Any takers?
Attachments
Andy, thanks for taking the time and trouble to prove what many of us will have suspected.
I think this plane will be the perfect companion piece to the "saw shaped object" I reviewed here:
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/saws-don-t-go-this-low-t74628.html
I think this plane will be the perfect companion piece to the "saw shaped object" I reviewed here:
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/saws-don-t-go-this-low-t74628.html
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