Mafell/Triton 'Duo Dowell' versus Festool Domino
- Thread starter sams93
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We use a biscuit jointer and a Mafel Doweler, sometimes both in the same joint. The Mafel doweller is great. Sometimes we use it with both dowel drills in, sometimes just the one. Great for accurate location. The biscuit only offers accuracy in one direction, the dowel is precise in both. Dowels are cheap. Festool Dominoes are not, but in many cases they do a similar job and I thought the Mafel doweller would offer better value in the long run and I have not been disappointed by my decision. I also have the Mafel accessory quick clamping template guide which is also very good but is used rarely because we more often use a combination of one pair of dowels and then biscuits for the rest of a wider joint. The quality of Mafel engineering is really good, but quite specialist so we tend to use Makita for most other tools where accuracy needs to be good but not quite as perfect. I have always thought Festool tools are over priced so was glad to find an alternative to the loose tenon / portable dowel machine type of requirement, especially when you consider the cost of the dowels/Dominoes. Edit, somebody mentioned that they are hard work, I would say keep the drills sharp and use good extraction, yes, pretty hard going in tough hardwood end-grain, but perfectly do-able.
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sams93
Established Member
I feel really embarrased to say that I picked up a used DF500 and a box of dominoes for £450 yesterday....
I saw it for sale and thought it was too good a deal to miss, i'll see how I get on with it and go from there, if i dont use it enough then I will end up selling it!
I saw it for sale and thought it was too good a deal to miss, i'll see how I get on with it and go from there, if i dont use it enough then I will end up selling it!
Well, at about half-price, that is likely to be good value if in good nick. Nothing to be embarrassed about imho.
sams93
Established Member
Yeah I havent used it properly yet but it is in good working order, the systainer of dominos is about 50% full. It is very much overkill for my purposes. I have a set of bedroom furniture to make over the next month or two so hopefully it will get some use then and I will see if it is worthwhile keeping it after that.
sometimewoodworker
Established Member
The point that you have missed in the above is that the Domino does the job of both the Doweler (accurate joint placement and joint strength) while giving a stronger joint, and the biscuit joiner (accurate placement in one plane and movement in the other) but also gives a stronger joint than any biscuit can.
All the tests I have seen suggest that a biscuit provides little, if any, strength to a joint. they are there to provide alignment. While all tests agree that a Domino always adds strength even at the widest wiggle setting while providing alignment.
Inspector
Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
Once upon a time Fine Woodworking magazine did an article comparing joint strengths. If memory serves the joints were in solid wood with the one piece attached into the middle of the second. Picture a seat to back joint in a chair. They did mortice and tennon, lap, loose tennon made with a router as there were no Dominos then, biscuits, dowels and perhaps others. The biscuits were only bested by the traditional mortice and tennon, not by much I'll add. So the assertion that biscuits are only for alignment is not true. If my library wasn't in a mess due to being moved several times while completing the basement I would pull up the article. Perhaps another member has it.
Pete
Pete
sometimewoodworker
Established Member
The accurate quote was
Your memory suggests that in one test there was a different conclusion, I don’t remember seeing that test.
My memory of the tests I have seen are what I based my statement on.
So far the data is based on memory, a notoriously fickle thing.
So references to actual tests would be useful in knowing whose memory is better. I would certainly be interested in finding that the assessment of biscuit joints are consistently better than suggested.
One datum is that there are many biscuit cutting machines and the slot produced is of varied accuracy along with the quality of biscuits also being not perfectly consistent. The same cannot be said of the Domino where operator error can cause problems, but apart from that the joints are all equally made as are the Dominoes.
Hornbeam
Established Member
There have been quite a few tests on all types of joints but I am not convinced by the engineering approach. Many conclude that the glue is stronger than the wood but then do not take int account gluing are or the practical way in which joints are loaded
If you look at old dining chairs, the side rail is morticed into the back leg which is the most highly stressed joint. The back seat rail is dowelled into the leg as this is much less stressed and the dowels pin and strengthen the side rail tennon
Biscuits work really well in edge joints as they allow some movement in 1 plane give excellent aligment in the othe rplane. They do strengthen the joint but only around the biscuit area. If you want more strength then use a full length plywood spline
Kevin Ley made lots of furniture joined with biscuits, which I think was terrible engineering but if you look at panel and frame construction there are 2 options. If using a veneered central panel glued in all round then there is very little stress on the frame joints so a biscuit may work. If it was a solid loos floating panel, then all the loads are carried by the frame joints so I would use an M+T or a domino
The domino is a bit of a do it all and while it is pricey I dont think there is anything that matches it. The only issue I have found with large glue ups is that compared with M+T joints, you effectively have twice as many joints to glue up as you have to do both ends of each joint which takes abit more time
If you look at old dining chairs, the side rail is morticed into the back leg which is the most highly stressed joint. The back seat rail is dowelled into the leg as this is much less stressed and the dowels pin and strengthen the side rail tennon
Biscuits work really well in edge joints as they allow some movement in 1 plane give excellent aligment in the othe rplane. They do strengthen the joint but only around the biscuit area. If you want more strength then use a full length plywood spline
Kevin Ley made lots of furniture joined with biscuits, which I think was terrible engineering but if you look at panel and frame construction there are 2 options. If using a veneered central panel glued in all round then there is very little stress on the frame joints so a biscuit may work. If it was a solid loos floating panel, then all the loads are carried by the frame joints so I would use an M+T or a domino
The domino is a bit of a do it all and while it is pricey I dont think there is anything that matches it. The only issue I have found with large glue ups is that compared with M+T joints, you effectively have twice as many joints to glue up as you have to do both ends of each joint which takes abit more time
