Machine Moving (or the I've been a very naughty boy thread).

[Jelly]

As some of you know from threads in general metalworking, I'm currently developing the tools and experience required to make my own handsaws...

In order to taper-grind the plates I got quotes from local firms for surface Grinding, and it was fairly pricey, so I started looking at other ways, until I spyed a small surface grinder on one of the machine auction sites... Bidding impulsively I won it for a steal, but am now faced with shifting it from bognor regis.

My initial thoughts are to have a pallet line bring it into the yard at work and borrow the works van to get it to the workshop (or put it in the back of the Mondeo if I can't borrow the van, though I'd rather prefer to have a tail lift to unload it)... So far, So good but I'm still going to have to get it inside possibly contending with a kerb, up in a goods lift (big enough for a Bridgeport mill, so more than up to this) and off the pallet.

Does anyone have sage advice or ingenious contraptions for lifting/moving heavy objects other than gathering a team of willing victims... Sorry assistants and using "boy-scout power"?

Edit: or can anyone recommend any cheap machine moving firms?

 

[undergroundhunter]

Can't help with the delivery options but I'm more than willing to offer up some man power if you need me, I'm only down the road.

Matt

 

[MusicMan]

There's some useful hints and methods in a thread I started on 3 August called Moving Heavy Machines, in General Woodworking.

I'd have the pallet firm deliver it direct to your place, then have rollers ready. You can hire engine hoists with 2 ton capacity by the day, which will probably be useful for getting it up the kerb and positioning it in the workshop. And be prepared to dismantle it a bit to make it manageable.

What make/model is it? Picture please!

Keith

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Stone-age technology works very well - rollers and levers made from bits of scaffolding tube, with scaffolding boards or bits of scrap ply as "rails". I've found I can move shipping containers, rayburn stoves, large oak beams etc. round corners and even up/down (small) slopes (with care) - with fingertip control.

I've also learned the hard way not to put heavy/big stuff in a family car!

Cheers, W2S

 

[AJB Temple]

From experience, the hard bit is getting heavy kit into a vehicle, unless it has a tail lift. It is much easier to get it out in a controlled way, with propped timber ramps (wedged so they cannot collapse). I would also avoid using a family car - damage on the way in is all too easy.

Always wear gloves. Insist helper wears gloves. Preferably wear steel toe cap boots.

My best ever investment was a very large pot/tree mover, as used in commercial garden centres. This has large pneumatic tyres, a big plate and very long angled handles for superior leverage. This will lift and transport most heavy tools you would use in a home / light trade workshop and get them over most surfaces and small steps.

 

[Jelly]

The machine is a tiny Trident, I believe it was originally a horizontal milling machine, and the original owner (a print shop using metal type) retrofitted bearings with superior tolerances and a grinding spindle.

As I understand it the Base, Knee and Column can all be separated into pieces which are liftable between a few people... But my experience of disassembling heavy things is that it's often hard to get enough people round them to make it a truly safe lift, so I'm trying to avoid lifting and carrying.

It was being used by a classic car garage to re-surface heads and valves, who have now acquired a larger one for more demanding projects.

 

[RobinBHM]

I once picked up a Viceroy sharpedge chisel grinder (from a forum member) and put it in my car. Its the size of a washing machine, maybe 90kg. Anything much heavier wouldnt be easy.

Your machine could be packed on its side, to a ply base board, with battens and packers as needed, then you have a flat base to slide up into the car.

I made a ply saddle to hang over the tailgate and cut a sheet of 18mm ply to fit in the car. Once the machine was in; just tip over onto taikgate saddle and slide up. I screwed battens around the machine on all 4 sides to prevent sliding. Ratchet straps to hold it tight.

Pallet couriers may deliver, but you would rely on the seller to pack, unless you visit and pack it.

Shiply?

 

[marcros]

any idea how heavy it might be?

 

[Jelly]

any idea how heavy it might be?

If it was solid cast, in the region of 400KG, but I know from the seller its a hollow casting, so probably more like 250kg, I'm guessing the split is probably 50kg knee, 70Kg base, 100 Kg column, 20 kg motor.

 

[wallace]

I would agree it looks around the 250kg mark. It looks a bit long to be stood up on a pallet without a lot of support work. If your not near the collection place you could ask them to prepare it correctly with some strapping or rope. Something like that can walked into position without too much effort.

 

[mindthatwhatouch]

Nice find. Sorry can't help with the transportation.
However if you need a pair of hands this end I am just down the road!

 

[DTR]

Nice find.

Agreed, I love vintage machine tools!

 

[dickm]

Two comments
(1) don't know anything about him, but there's a guy who trades as "Landylift" who seems to be generally recommended in machinery circles.
(2) For lifting, an engine crane is a worthwhile investment; they don't take up much space if foldable and can save a lot of angst.

 

[RobinBHM]

Although it would be possible to get palletline or similar to deliver and get the seller to pack it, I would avoid this if you can, Ive heard too many breakages happen with cast iron machines.

If you could visit and either pack it yourself or take apart and put it in the car, I would do so for peace of mind, and a kind offer of help from mindthatwhatouch might be the extra lifting power you may need (unfortunate user name for such a task ).

 

[MusicMan]

I bought a used invalid hydraulic hoist for £70 off eBay to move my machines (use proper nylon hoist strapping). It has 300 lb capacity so will manage any of the split pieces of your machine, and can lift them safely and help you to reassemble accurately. It's designed to manoeuvre around furniture in the home so is quite manoeuvrable. I think it would be much easier to handle if dismantled into three main sections.

Keith

 

[Jelly]

The seller is dismantling it in advance and I'm going down to collect with either van or Mondeo on Saturday.

I still have a minor conundrum as to where it's going to go, I've asked Nottingham hackspace if they'd like to give it a home with their Bridgeport and Myford, if not I think I have a friend who could store for a bit, failing that it's either behind the sofa in the flat or a commercial storage unit until I move (which is happening relatively soon, I think).

 

[Wildman]

it is a rebadged "PALLAS" horizontal milling machine, I have one here.
Tilted to the point of balance it can be walked across the floor or use a sack truck. I tilted it onto the rear of a trailer then slid it in on my own. Easier to handle as one piece than splitting it.
The lack of guards make it a killer machine. The gearing of the table feeds is in thousanths of an inch rather than tenths of a thou (no dials at all on mine but I rigged digital verniers) that would be needed and feed will reduce your arm to a quivering lump after a couple of passes taking a few tenths of at a time. It is to my mind a good machine for what it was originally intended, slotting screws etc. I doubt it ever had the travel to surface a cyl head unless it was for a motorcycle though I can see it doing valves with a proper jig.

 

[Jelly]

Thanks for the info wildman.

It will suit my purposes for now (there was a much larger hydraulic surface grinder which went for £30 more than this, but it would have been much too big for me to cope with) I'm looking at a suitable magnetic chuck and digital readout... I suspect that whilst I will eventually find a project requiring that level of precision, I'm still a way off yet.

 

[Wildman]

there you go
Pallas Horizontal Milling Machine Model C
Available as either a bench or floor-standing unit the Model C Pallas was manufactured from the late 1920s. The table had a working surface of 14" x 5" (the early, rather lighter machines had a shorter 12-inch long table) and carried two T slots with a coolant-drain reservoir at its right-hand end. Quick-action lever feed was fitted to all three directions of movement with screw feed to the cross and vertical travels and adjustable stops on all axes. The longitudinal travel was 10.7", the cross feed 3.5" and the vertical 5,125". In the late 1920s Bakelite was still a sufficiently novel material for the makers to mention that the operating levers were all fitted with moulded "Bakelite grips".
Running in bronze bearings the spindle was fitted with a screwed nose that allowed a chuck or other convenient fitting to be mounted. For an extra charge a "high-speed" spindle, capable of up to 1500 rpm, could be ordered - but whether this improvement was down to better material and finish, or the use of roller bearings, was not revealed by the maker.
All turned surfaces as well as the slideways and the top of the table were ground-finished. The miller was supplied as standard with a 1-inch diameter arbor and hardened spacing rings, a set of spanners and a countershaft for wall or ceiling mounting with 13/8" wide pulleys and ring-oiled bearings..

 

[Jelly]

So it made it to the storage unit unharmed, I haven't fully re-assembled it yet, as I didn't take any tools with me this morning to drop it off.

Getting the column back on the base was the straw that broke the Jelly's back however. After 3 days this week lifting stuff in the 40-80kg range unaided at work, that last lift caused me some twinges... Unfortunately controlled lifts are a lot more demanding than just humping stuff about, but I didn't realise my mistake until I'd committed to the lift.

The girl on the desk at the storage place told me that I could have pallets for free when it comes to palletizing and bracing it for the next move in December, also they have a forklift which is handy.

I'll be measuring up for guards on the belt and wheel, then adding an E- Stop button on the front, before it can move to it's new home.