LPHC Low pressure high confusion..

[pike]

Another thread about buying a vac for powertool dust got me wondering if I'm using the wrong extractors myself!

I have a SIP 01929 which I *think* is similar to the likes of the Record DX1000/2000, RSDE1/2 and Camvac 286/386. Is that true?
Are the above all HPLV High Pressure Low Volume for dust producing machines e.g. circular saw and sanders.

I use a Trend T30 wet and dry vac on my hand held power tools which create dust. However, I bought the SIP for my planer thicknesser. I wonder if that was a mistake. However, the description says chippings and dust but then the small print says not for dust. :?

Recently I got bandsaw and I've been using the SIP on that which seems to work. That would seem to confirm it's good for dust. I already have the Trend for dust though. Could I get the same results on my bandsaw with the Trend vac?

I'm now starting to think that I haven't actually got anything which will do the planer/thicknesser extraction. For that I'd need a LPHV low pressure high volume?

Cheers!
Carl.

 

[Selwyn]

The only tool that is high volume is the plaber thickness. All the rest are pretty low volume

 

[pike]

Makes sense. So the planer/thicknesser needs a LPHV and none of the extractors I have or have listed above are that?

What is my SIP https://www.sipuk.co.uk/sip-dust-chip-collector.html actually for?

 

[SlowSteve]

What you have is a ***VERY*** cheap way of purchasing a 1.5HP motor and vacuum system.

Throw in a cyclone system (£30 of bits from B&Q and a morning in the shed) and a secondary filter and a cart to mount it on ( another £50 of bits and the afternoon in the shed) and you have shop vac which will handle essentially unlimited amounts of any size and quantity of dust/chips/shavings/off-cuts you make AND an air purifier AND it's portable... all for less cost than buying a 1.5HP motor buy itself...

Keep your trend as a backup or put it on eBay for some money (nice) and some extra space (nicer...)

Steve

 

[pike]

Thanks Steve that really helps my understanding. Are you saying with the cyclone etc if would be a HPLV and a LPHV?

To be honest though, I think its way too noisy and doesn't have autopower which the trend does. So I might be better off just using the trend and getting something new which can do the planer/thicknesser.

Carl.

 

[CHJ]

One thing that is important when moving dust and shavings is the ability of the airflow to entrap and keep the particles moving, this what the LPHV extractor with appropriate ducting is good at.
Unfortunately unless the motor & fan is of adequate power then its ability to maintain the airflow through fine filters is limited.

(I overcome this by having cheap, power wise, LPHV with coarse filter outside the shop it'll happily suck a 50mm cube all the way to the metal fan. #-o )

Trying to use a LPHV extractor for small tools is usually ineffective as their input airstream is choked and the fan assembly airflow will stall unless appropriate bleed channels are installed, but do this will reduce the suction at the tool.

 

[pike]

Thanks again. So given that I was happy with my Trend T30 for hand held power tools, it sounds like I didn't need the SIP and it is not a good choice for my planer/thicknesser? Although Steve's suggestion of adding a cylone etc to it is good, I want something quieter and with auto take off. I'm also not convinced it is extracting enough on my Kity planer/thicknesser, but that might also be the machines fault.

Looking at things like the Record DX5000 (not that I'd buy that in particular) http://www.recordpower.co.uk/product/fine-filter-twin-motor-200-litre-extractor--hplv#.Vt8cePmLS70 it seems some extractors are sold to do both chips and dust. People in the know always say you need two different machines HPLV and LPHV but this is confusing when many extractors say they are one but then the blurb claims they do both.

If anyone would like to suggest a good mid budget extraction system which has auto power and isn't noisy I'd be happy to hear it This should maybe be moved to buying advice.

My main tools are:
Festool Track Saw and Domino
Bandsaw
Planer/Thicknesser
Bobbin and Belt Sander
Random Orbital Sander


Carl.

 

[CHJ]

All Chip extractors will suck up dust, what most DIY rated ones fail miserably to do is retain the very fine dust and not re-distribute it around the shop.

Even units fitted with a cyclone pass a small proportion of the fine most dangerous dust on for the final filter to trap.

 

[PAC1]

Thanks again. So given that I was happy with my Trend T30 for hand held power tools, it sounds like I didn't need the SIP and it is not a good choice for my planer/thicknesser? Although Steve's suggestion of adding a cylone etc to it is good, I want something quieter and with auto take off. I'm also not convinced it is extracting enough on my Kity planer/thicknesser, but that might also be the machines fault.

Looking at things like the Record DX5000 (not that I'd buy that in particular) http://www.recordpower.co.uk/product/fine-filter-twin-motor-200-litre-extractor--hplv#.Vt8cePmLS70 it seems some extractors are sold to do both chips and dust. People in the know always say you need two different machines HPLV and LPHV but this is confusing when many extractors say they are one but then the blurb claims they do both.

If anyone would like to suggest a good mid budget extraction system which has auto power and isn't noisy I'd be happy to hear it This should maybe be moved to buying advice.

My main tools are:
Festool Track Saw and Domino
Bandsaw
Planer/Thicknesser
Bobbin and Belt Sander
Random Orbital Sander


Carl.

I had a set up like the DX5000 until a year ago. It was good with all the fine dust generating machines and OK with the Planer/Thicknesser if you do not mind unblocking it every 15 minutes and do not mind that it only does 75% of the job. In the end I decided I needed proper extraction on my Planer /Thicknesser Saw table and Spindle. I now have a Jet Low Pressure High Volume machine which does the large collection brilliantly but the extraction on my bandsaw is not as good. The solution is a good chip extractor for big stuff and a good vacuum system for the fine dust machines

 

[pike]

Thanks I think I have a better idea now. Best case would be to have a proper dedicated LPHV for my planer thicknesser and a vac for everything else. Except the bandsaw which I still don't quite understand as it's a large machine with a 4" outlet but creates dust not chippings.

Where does a camvac fit in compared to a trend/festool/nilfisk wet and dry vac?

 

[CHJ]

..... Except the bandsaw which I still don't quite understand as it's a large machine with a 4" outlet but creates dust not chippings.

The bandsaw lower wheel compartment (just like most Table Saw cases) is not good at concentrating the dust being shot into it with some force and needs a High volume of air movement into the extraction to entrain the dust and route it to the outlet port.

Something that does not help in this respect is that the air inlet to the lower wheel compartment is often small, just around the lower blade bearings and entry port so don't worry about any air gaps around the door they are more likely to be a benefit than a problem.

 

[sunnybob]

From my last years learning curve.....

I have the sip 4" vacuum. Its connected to a cyclone. This works extremely well. The cyclone removes everything from the system except the very finest of dust. (i mean FINEST!) the cyclone diverts everything else into a box for easy disposal. I removed the bag from the sip (the cyclone makes this redundant) leaving only the dust filter that looks like a huge car air filter. I've just cleaned this filter after more than 6 months of hobby use. It was completely blocked and starting to collapse.

Having spent 10 minutes brushing and knocking the dust from this filter, its back in again and the whole system is very efficient on everything except the bandsaw. I'm of the belief that the bandsaw having 4" ports and being connected to my 63mm tubing is causing too much of a flow drop (NOT pressure) to take away all the dust from the gap under the table.

The cleaner is in a noise cancelling box and I am very pleased with it for the outlay (except the for bandsaw of course, but thats a work in progress)
If the bandsaw has 2 x 4" ports, block off the bottom one and just use the under table port. You can open the door and clean the bottom section once weekly.