Low angle rebating block plane

[Wizard9999]

I followed the link in the latest Rutlands sale mail shot (I know, I know, but we have covered that tin spades before) and was looking at the low angle rebating block plane. As a bit of a novice maybe I am mistaken, but my thinking is that as I have neither a low angle block plane or a shoulder plane this may be an economical way to fill a gap in my tool inbpventory. I am sure two dedicated planes are better but as I say, economical.

There has been talk in the past about Qiangsheng vs Quangsheng from Workshop Heaven. The suggestion if I recall is that they are from the same factory and that Rutland takes a version of the planes with a lower bar set for quality control than the Workshop Heaven version. However, having taken a close look at the pictures of the two planes on the respective sites there appears to be at least one difference.

The Rutlands plane appears to mount the blade on the actual threaded adjusting screw just in front of the knurled knob you turn to advance the blade, the part of the plane the blade rests on near the adjusting wheel is fixed. On the Workshop Heaven plane the blade has slots cut into it (not on the Rutlands blade) which drop on to two projections on the part the blade rests on, this part is two piece with the part the blade is attached to sliding in a second part.

Maybe not well described, but a quick look at these two pages may make it clearer:

Rutlands (see first image): http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+qiangsheng ... ane+DK1335

Workshop Heaven (again first image): http://www.workshopheaven.com/quangshen ... ype-3.html

Any thoughts on the respective merits of the two different approaches?

Given these differences it leads me to think that maybe there may be other differences between the planes, but I can't spot anything other than the colour of some parts.

Terry.

Edit: just looked at the Lie Nielsen rebating block plane (not low angle) and the mechanism appears to be the same as the Rutlands one, so I guess that cannot be an altogether poor design.

 

[JohnPW]

All else being equal, I think the Rutlands (Qiangsheng Luban) version is more simple and presumably cheaper to manufacture, and works just as well as the Workshop Heaven version.

The former also has more surface area for the iron to rest on. All the Record shoulder and bullnose planes have this arrangement.

 

[lurker]

Workshop heaven are honestly saying theirs is out of stock
Do you even trust the other place to have stock?

If something goes wrong who is more likely to come up with a satisfactory conclusion?
Matthew or bakewell scum?

 

[Wizard9999]

If something goes wrong who is more likely to come up with a satisfactory conclusion?
Matthew or bakewell scum?

I have heard nothing but good things about customer service from Workshop Heaven, but my personal experience is that when I had an issue with Rutlands, a missing part, hey resolved it by sending a replacement part witout quibble or delay.

However, as per my original post I did not really want to start yet another thread about some of Rutlands' marketing practices, rather to understand thoughts on the two plane designs.

Terry.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

As a bit of a novice maybe I am mistaken, but my thinking is that as I have neither a low angle block plane or a shoulder plane this may be an economical way to fill a gap in my tool inventory. I am sure two dedicated planes are better but as I say, economical.

A rabbet block plane is not recommended for tuning tenon shoulders. The body is too wide to balance on the narrow shoulders with control. You could use it for wider tenon cheeks.

You would be better off with a dedicated block plane. The rabbet block plane has a wide fixed mouth, which makes it more difficult to set up for fine shavings. The blade edges are open to the sides and potentially dangerous. A traditional block plane is not this risky.

My advice is not to find a shortcut to an arsenal of planes, but purchase the best you can for specific purposes.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Mr_P]

If you are on a budget and to be honest even if you aren't get yourself an old bullnose, reaches further into corners than either of those two.

Cheap as chips as long as you avoid names, this one had a really good length Ward & Payne iron

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-Ward- ... 7675.l2557

Too expensive ? then try a good old wooden shoulder plane and they are cheap.

For £50 - £70 you can get yourself a decent big Shoulder infill.

 

[custard]

my thinking is that as I have neither a low angle block plane or a shoulder plane this may be an economical way to fill a gap in my tool inbpventory. I am sure two dedicated planes are better but as I say, economical.

I agree that fewer tools is the better approach. Even leaving the cost aside, the more you use a particular tool the more skilled with it you become, so spreading limited workshop hours across loads of different tools may satisfy the inner shop-a-holic, but it does nothing to improve the quality of your work.

That's certainly the philosophy at the Edward Barnsley Workshop, their recommended hand tool kit is famously minimal, however even they advocate both a low angle block plane and a 1 1/4" shoulder plane. From a practical, furniture maker's perspective I get that. There are some specialised applications for a rebating block plane, for example sometimes you have to adjust a drawer cavity if a localised high spot is causing a drawer to bind, a rebating block plane or a number 10 carriage maker's plane might be useful. However, you can get by with the 1 1/4" shoulder plane, or even some 80 grit glued to a square sided billet of wood. And apart from very specialised applications like this, the rebating block plane is a poor compromise for the very common jobs where you'd normally use either the block plane or the shoulder plane.

A low angle block plane and a shoulder plane live on my bench pretty much permanently and I would certainly list them both as essential "core" tools.

Incidentally, I've spoken to a few American woodworkers who are surprised at the British tradition of only having a 1 1/4" shoulder plane, they would argue that two or even three shoulder planes are essential. If both money and time are no object then I can kind of understand where they're coming from, but in practise I find shoulder planes are often quite quirky to set up and use, so there's sense in focusing on just one and really getting the best from it. And once you get used to its heft then a 1 1/4" shoulder plane is by far the most versatile of the shoulder planes.

Good luck!

 

[Jacob]

They are block planes but they are not rebate planes - though you could do a rebate if you were desperate.
If you want to hand-plane rebates buy an old woody - one of the most useful planes, even if you have the full armoury of steel. There are thousands of them out there and dead cheap; ebay £10 ish buy it now, £2 to 5 if auctioned.

 

[Wizard9999]

Thanks all for the advice, much appreciated and I will take it on board, maybe this was the wrong area to look for compromise / economy. My thought process was to some extent inspired by the opening paragraph on Workshop Heaven's page on the rebating block plane, which given the comments above by respected contributors surprises me a little

"The Quangsheng rebating block has the advantage of being able to reach into an internal corner. Think of it as a broad, comfortable shoulder plane rather than a block plane with added versatility and you won't go far wrong."

Many thanks again for your help.

Terry.

 

[pollys13]

Have you had a look at the Rider planes by Axminster tools, many people say they are very good quality as well as being reasonable priced.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/articles/axm ... der-planes

 

[MattRoberts]

I have the axminster three in one, which gives you a shoulder plane, bull nose and chisel plane in one. Highly recommended it. The blade is ever so slightly wider than the body, allowing you to plane rebates just fine

 

[custard]

I have the axminster three in one, which gives you a shoulder plane, bull nose and chisel plane in one. Highly recommended it. The blade is ever so slightly wider than the body, allowing you to plane rebates just fine

If you've got a good one, where the soles and sides of the shoulder plane and bull nose attachments all line up accurately, and where there's little or no azimuth error to the iron, then they're indeed an unbeatable plane. Problem is (at least with the Record and Clico versions of the 3 in 1) there were so many poor examples out there that their reputation isn't that great.

 

[MattRoberts]

I guess there's degrees of accuracy that people look for in their planes

Mine is as accurate as I need it to be, but I'll be the first to admit I'm no plane expert. I line up the components by fitting them whilst applying pressure on my tablesaw top (with blade retracted of course), to ensure the soles are level.

Not sure how it measures up to other brands

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Custard, it is interesting that you mention the 1 1/4" wide shoulder plane. I have two of these, an infill and the Veritas. Neither get much use as they are poorly balanced in comparison with narrower shoulder planes. I use the 1/2" Veritas most and the 3/4" next. They are used for tenon shoulders, rebates, and tuning mouldings. I do not use a shoulder plane for tuning tenon cheeks. My recommendation for an all rounder shoulder plane is a 3/4". Even the balance and control of this side is light years from a 1 1/4".

I do not see the fondness of some for a bullnose plane. They lack the registration in the toe of the shoulder plane, which makes it difficult to shoot shoulders. Plus they do not plane into a wall as some believe. They end about 1/2" (or more) from the wall. You still need to finish with a chisel. Dropping this plane from the collection is one way of increasing skill level since proficiency with a chisel will take over.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Jacob]

......Dropping this plane from the collection is one way of increasing skill level since proficiency with a chisel will take over.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Dropping a plane from a collection? :shock: You turning over a new leaf Derek? :lol:

The fact that so many plane designs exist does not mean that anybody needs all of them; you can do almost everything with hardly any of them, a very small armoury, and, as Derek suggests, increase your skill level in the process

 

[Armagh]

As a hobbyist, and not someone who is near the same level of woodworker as several of the people who have already posted I'm only posting because I went through the exact same thought process recently. I had considered the rebating block plane but eventually ruled it out because I also liked the idea of a rebating plane that could also be used as a chisel plane. I therefore considered buying a 3in1 plane. I looked at the Soba 3in1 which was available on eBay through chronos until recently for £45, but reviews were very hit and miss. Then I set about looking for a Record 3in1, but found that the price would always skyrocket at the very end of each auction, and I just wasn't willing to spend that much. So eventually I purchased a Stanley #93 on eBay. It was something like £50, I've already had reason to use it and I must say I'm quite pleased with it. Just my two cents and as I say you've already received advice from some much better woodworkers.

 

[JonnyW]

Then Lie Nielsen block plane is low angled.

Jonny