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BearTricks

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2015
Messages
628
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33
Location
Wigan
Hi,

I wouldn't usually do this but I'm getting desperate. I've been unemployed for coming up to a year. Up until September of last year I was working for the public sector on a project teaching media skills to under-served and at-risk people. A charity approached the public sector organisation in order to start the project, the organisation needed someone to run the project on their end and so hired me (I'm being vague for privacy's sake).

I was pretty good at the job, but budget cuts and general resistance meant that I never really got anything meaningful done. I eventually took voluntary redundancy because there were waves of people losing their jobs and I correctly guessed that mine would be next. The voluntary redundancy was a lot more generous than the mandatory one I would have endured a month or so after I left.

Since leaving I've struggled to find anything. My experience in media isn't enough to land me a job there, and everyone else is rightly bemused by my last job. I essentially didn't learn enough in any of the skills I was using to employ them anywhere else. I've applied for similar things and I've applied for completely out of the box stuff. I've had two interviews, one for a job I didn't particularly want and one for something I thought I was perfect for and which offered a lot of training. Neither went as well as I'd hoped. I haven't heard back from 99% of the places I've applied to, from well paid project manager stuff to shelf stacking.

I'm 26, so at the top end of national minimum wage, which makes me unattractive to potential employers who can employ someone younger for cheaper. Anything above that is skilled jobs, most of which I don't have the skills for. I've also become aware that the longer I go without getting anything, the worse my confidence becomes and the less I can manage to sell myself. I have been looking at joining the Navy, but a past medical issue means I have to wait another year before I can apply.

And I am fully aware that people will look at this and jeer at the media-type degree. If I could go back, tell the university to stuff their manipulated employment data then slap my 17 year old self across the face and tell him to get an apprenticeship I would. As it is I'm stuck struggling to see a way forward and whinging about my bad decisions doesn't help much, although that doesn't stop me most days.

Anyway this is a long winded way of asking if anyone knows of any employment opportunities knocking about, and I mean more or less anything. I know it's a long shot, but maybe someone has heard of something on the grapevine or knows of any jobs that will recruit and train someone with the opportunity to move up the ladder. Otherwise, feel free to use this thread to talk about the state of unemployment in the country or related topics so it isn't clogging up the forum's arteries unnecessarily.

Edit: I'm based around Wigan but happy to travel within driving distance.
 
I can't help you I'm afraid but if I do hear of anything I will let you know.

What I can say is that's its never too late to retrain, topping up your skills or a complete new direction is always possible. The path maybe difficult but its always possible with sacrifice.

Both my parents worked in factory's, my dad mixed rubber for car door window trim and my mom used to work on QA looking for imperfections in the rubber and cutting them out. They wanted better jobs so both enrolled in basic education in there spare time, then gave up their jobs to go into full time education for two years to get a diploma. This got them on nurse training courses which was another three years training !

My Dad was 35 and my mom was 33 when they started, both ended up running a ward with degree's in nursing. They did it all that with three kids in tow.

Keep at it and it will happen :)
 
I was in a similar situation earlier this year, but I went self employed, it isn't working out very well so far, but it beats the constant abuse I recieved from DWP for not playing by their rules and games, they are total idiots, middle class, pretentous idiots, who are in their cushy easy job sanctioning for fun and pleasure. Without getting into too much of rant, I would seriously recommend looking into self employment.
 
Sounds like a crappy situation - you sound like a good guy who wants to work hard given a chance.

I don't know if it's feasible for your situation, but you might have to take a hit in order to move forward. Which means starting somewhere very junior and working your way up, or better still paying for training yourself.

Good luck - never give up hope :)
 
You have my sympathies....

When I was entering my 30's I retrained to program 'puters. I know times were different then (where did that quarter-century go?), but there do seem to be jobs around. Especially for folk willing to do 'consultancy'. Coding is not everyone's cup of tea (far from it), but it is quite possible to dabble at home for free in order to find out if you like it (eg eclipse/java). Minimal tooling/equipment costs. Like any job, the big hurdle is getting the first bit of experience. The government trained me for 10 months (HNC?) and found me a two month job placement. Worked there five years then ten years in a big-name company before 'retiring' to the west and winding up in a small local company.

Good luck finding work. A person that wants to work is an asset to society and should be helped by all.
 
I know its probably not what your looking for but have you thought of Lidl see here http://careers.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/SID-0 ... t-1792.htm

Not everyones cup of tea but they do seem to have reliable well paid jobs and there's plenty of them all over the UK, at our nearest one there is a young lad there who when it opened 10years ago he was shelf stacking now he is the manager and involved with media stuff and drives a beautiful BMW car If I was a young un looking for work I'd certainly give them a try if there was a shortage of local jobs
 
DrPhill":av4m17xb said:
You have my sympathies....

When I was entering my 30's I retrained to program 'puters. I know times were different then (where did that quarter-century go?), but there do seem to be jobs around. Especially for folk willing to do 'consultancy'. Coding is not everyone's cup of tea (far from it), but it is quite possible to dabble at home for free in order to find out if you like it (eg eclipse/java). Minimal tooling/equipment costs. Like any job, the big hurdle is getting the first bit of experience. The government trained me for 10 months (HNC?) and found me a two month job placement. Worked there five years then ten years in a big-name company before 'retiring' to the west and winding up in a small local company.

Good luck finding work. A person that wants to work is an asset to society and should be helped by all.

I did try to teach myself Python about five years ago. Not sure what prompted me to learn that one and I was always unclear as to what the difference between each language was and what I could actually do with it. I got as far as programming a basic calculator then I think I had a busy few weeks and trailed off.

There seems to be a lot of debate and in-fighting around which languages are the most useful. My basic understanding is that HTML is like website bricks and drywall and CSS is the wallpaper and furniture. Everything else seems like a mix between back-end server stuff and whatever hackers use to hack things.
 
thetyreman":2j04ryh6 said:
I was in a similar situation earlier this year, but I went self employed, it isn't working out very well so far, but it beats the constant abuse I recieved from DWP for not playing by their rules and games, they are total idiots, middle class, pretentous idiots, who are in their cushy easy job sanctioning for fun and pleasure. Without getting into too much of rant, I would seriously recommend looking into self employment.

What did you end up doing?
 
Down and out in Wigan? Like an Orwell novel. :(

If I was 26, I wouldn't think twice about relocating.
I know of a lot of people who left for Canada, Australia...
They also had few useful skills, but the governments of their new homeland were kind
and many opportunities arose.
And they even didn't speak English properly.
 
BearTricks":237166j4 said:
[
I did try to teach myself Python about five years ago. Not sure what prompted me to learn that one and I was always unclear as to what the difference between each language was and what I could actually do with it. I got as far as programming a basic calculator then I think I had a busy few weeks and trailed off.

There seems to be a lot of debate and in-fighting around which languages are the most useful. My basic understanding is that HTML is like website bricks and drywall and CSS is the wallpaper and furniture. Everything else seems like a mix between back-end server stuff and whatever hackers use to hack things.

TL;DR: whichever language you learn first is fine. As long as you realise it will not be the last language that you learn.

At its heart programming (coding) is about :
  • breaking a task down into bits so small that a microprocessor understands them.
  • It is about the logic behind the task breakdown that allows you to re-use the same mini-task in other places. That means that you write it once and use it many times. If it has a bug you will find it and eliminate it earlier.
  • It is about keeping things as simple as they can possibly be and still work
  • It is about the tools and techniques that make it possible to do more and more complex things without getting lost in the details.

I can see analogies with planning and executing any large project in any discipline. Knowledge of tools (and keep learning), knowledge of what is possible (and keep learning), knowledge of your limits (and keep learning).

If the language you choose lets you learn the skill set then that is a good language - for learning the skill-set. Once you have one language, the second is slightly easier. Then you see the patterns and the third is a doddle, and the rest are spelling-exercises. (I simplify - each language has libraries of ready written code. knowing them can save huge amounts of time).
People who are comfortable claiming 'X is best' are probably not comfortable using any other non-X. Folk I have met in my career who know lots usually have a preference of language A for a particular task, and a preference for language B for a different task. I prefer Java for coding, but would use python for a quick hack, or Javascript or PHP for a quick hack on a website (depends on server or client). I use HTML for 'what it looks like' and JS/PHP for what it does. In my job I use C#, swift, objectiveC, Java, even VB if I have to. The same principles apply underneath.

<edit to get the bullet list right. grrr>
 
DrPhill":2kckp78j said:
BearTricks":2kckp78j said:
[
I did try to teach myself Python about five years ago. Not sure what prompted me to learn that one and I was always unclear as to what the difference between each language was and what I could actually do with it. I got as far as programming a basic calculator then I think I had a busy few weeks and trailed off.

There seems to be a lot of debate and in-fighting around which languages are the most useful. My basic understanding is that HTML is like website bricks and drywall and CSS is the wallpaper and furniture. Everything else seems like a mix between back-end server stuff and whatever hackers use to hack things.

TL;DR: whichever language you learn first is fine. As long as you realise it will not be the last language that you learn.

At its heart programming (coding) is about :
  • breaking a task down into bits so small that a microprocessor understands them.
  • It is about the logic behind the task breakdown that allows you to re-use the same mini-task in other places. That means that you write it once and use it many times. If it has a bug you will find it and eliminate it earlier.
  • It is about keeping things as simple as they can possibly be and still work
  • It is about the tools and techniques that make it possible to do more and more complex things without getting lost in the details.

I can see analogies with planning and executing any large project in any discipline. Knowledge of tools (and keep learning), knowledge of what is possible (and keep learning), knowledge of your limits (and keep learning).

If the language you choose lets you learn the skill set then that is a good language - for learning the skill-set. Once you have one language, the second is slightly easier. Then you see the patterns and the third is a doddle, and the rest are spelling-exercises. (I simplify - each language has libraries of ready written code. knowing them can save huge amounts of time).
People who are comfortable claiming 'X is best' are probably not comfortable using any other non-X. Folk I have met in my career who know lots usually have a preference of language A for a particular task, and a preference for language B for a different task. I prefer Java for coding, but would use python for a quick hack, or Javascript or PHP for a quick hack on a website (depends on server or client). I use HTML for 'what it looks like' and JS/PHP for what it does. In my job I use C#, swift, objectiveC, Java, even VB if I have to. The same principles apply underneath.

<edit to get the bullet list right. grrr>

Wow, that's a lot of languages. I had a quick look and it's between C, Python and Java if I want to have a dabble. C will probably fall my the wayside as there doesn't seem to be as many good resources or a community like Python and Java have.
 
Try getting in to Canada or Australia as an English speaker from this Country with "few useful skills" - dream on ... my sister and b.i.l. went to NZ 29 years ago, and they were well qualified. They still had to jump through hoops. Good move, though. She's just spent a third of a million quid doing up the new house.
 
BearTricks":2wrxx3xa said:
DrPhill":2wrxx3xa said:
BearTricks":2wrxx3xa said:
[
I did try to teach myself Python about five years ago. Not sure what prompted me to learn that one and I was always unclear as to what the difference between each language was and what I could actually do with it. I got as far as programming a basic calculator then I think I had a busy few weeks and trailed off.

There seems to be a lot of debate and in-fighting around which languages are the most useful. My basic understanding is that HTML is like website bricks and drywall and CSS is the wallpaper and furniture. Everything else seems like a mix between back-end server stuff and whatever hackers use to hack things.

TL;DR: whichever language you learn first is fine. As long as you realise it will not be the last language that you learn.

At its heart programming (coding) is about :
  • breaking a task down into bits so small that a microprocessor understands them.
  • It is about the logic behind the task breakdown that allows you to re-use the same mini-task in other places. That means that you write it once and use it many times. If it has a bug you will find it and eliminate it earlier.
  • It is about keeping things as simple as they can possibly be and still work
  • It is about the tools and techniques that make it possible to do more and more complex things without getting lost in the details.

I can see analogies with planning and executing any large project in any discipline. Knowledge of tools (and keep learning), knowledge of what is possible (and keep learning), knowledge of your limits (and keep learning).

If the language you choose lets you learn the skill set then that is a good language - for learning the skill-set. Once you have one language, the second is slightly easier. Then you see the patterns and the third is a doddle, and the rest are spelling-exercises. (I simplify - each language has libraries of ready written code. knowing them can save huge amounts of time).
People who are comfortable claiming 'X is best' are probably not comfortable using any other non-X. Folk I have met in my career who know lots usually have a preference of language A for a particular task, and a preference for language B for a different task. I prefer Java for coding, but would use python for a quick hack, or Javascript or PHP for a quick hack on a website (depends on server or client). I use HTML for 'what it looks like' and JS/PHP for what it does. In my job I use C#, swift, objectiveC, Java, even VB if I have to. The same principles apply underneath.

<edit to get the bullet list right. grrr>

Wow, that's a lot of languages. I had a quick look and it's between C, Python and Java if I want to have a dabble. C will probably fall my the wayside as there doesn't seem to be as many good resources or a community like Python and Java have.

Quote Java is (imho) slightly more disciplined than python, and maybe a better bet to start with. The development tools are free (Eclipse, Netbeans, IntelliJ and others) If coding is your path, then plan to learn both. Java is more a 'real' language, python more a 'scripting language' (but don't ask me to define the terms ;). Comparing the two would highlight the simularities and differences.

I did not quote the languages to impress, but to illustrate. I have others, and still have fewer than some coders I knew. Its not about how many chisels you have, but how many chisels you need to do your job (and how well you know how to use the chisels). And even then it is about the job you do, not the chisels, not how sharp they were.....
 
Sorry to suggest something not so plausible.
I thought you guys have preferential treatment, being members of the same commonwealth and all.
 
>> Wow, that's a lot of languages. I had a quick look and it's between C, Python and Java if I want to have a dabble. C will probably fall my the wayside as there doesn't seem to be as many good resources or a community like Python and Java have.

Bear Tricks is spot on here - learn one and you have learned the basics of all of them and I would only add that there is certainly a future in it.

Forget plain "C" look at C# or C++ al least. Also maybe look at the "App" frameworks/libraries for apple & Android.

I started programming at 25 (switched from the building trade). I'm still doing it.

If you decide to start:

0) Decide language.
1) Name your computer TOM standing for "Totally Obedient Moron".
2) Enlist lots of patience with the moron - it's only doing what you told it but be prepared to shout at yourself :)
3) Join stackoverflow ( http://stackoverflow.com/- a fantastic resource full of examples and advice (conflicting sometimes of course!). It's a free to join programmer community.

Sorry I don't have a job to offer and good luck with whatever you choose.
 
timbo614":1ecvvult said:
0) Decide language.
1) Name your computer TOM standing for "Totally Obedient Moron".
2) Enlist lots of patience with the moron - it's only doing what you told it but be prepared to shout at yourself :)
3) .........
.
There is a free lesson - old style languages start counting from zero, not one.
 
BearTricks":1qbm5npf said:
thetyreman":1qbm5npf said:
I was in a similar situation earlier this year, but I went self employed, it isn't working out very well so far, but it beats the constant abuse I recieved from DWP for not playing by their rules and games, they are total idiots, middle class, pretentous idiots, who are in their cushy easy job sanctioning for fun and pleasure. Without getting into too much of rant, I would seriously recommend looking into self employment.

What did you end up doing?

music production, audio engineering, mixing and mastering music which is what I studied for 5 years. I've had to learn a LOT though about running a business and many other things, but it's worth it.
 
The trouble with learning a language is that you need the work experience using it to get employment credibility its chicken and egg -which comes first. I'd look elsewhere.

If you were into training then you must have people skills try and look for jobs that use these - Lidl (Brian's comment) and Nursing/ Health Service (BigBud 78 comment) are good examples. You have a degree which shows application. A relative of mine came out of the Navy joined the NHS basically doing ECGs, after training, and progressed up the tree taking exams etc last week he just got a job as a Theatre Sister.

HTH

Brian
 
For the last five years my sister (28 yesterday) has been working at summer schools all round the UK for foreign students aged from eight to eighteen. Although the objective is to improve the student's English, apparently most of the time is spent playing games and going on trips to Alton Towers. The pay varies from school to school, but two weeks ago she was earning £400/week. Not bad for playing "name the animal" with a load of kids! Accommodation and food is included for the duration of the posting.

Between summer schools here in the UK she also works in schools abroad teaching English.

You're the right sort of age and have a background in teaching so you may fit the criteria? I'm not sure if an actual teaching qualification is necessary, however.

Not a long-term employment opportunity I know, but reading this thread reminded me of a recent conversation with my sister about her work. To be honest, it suits her perfectly because it's not permanent and the pay is good enough for her to refill her backpacking fund. She's riding down to Italy on a motorbike on Thursday in time for the Monza Grand Prix...
 
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