Liogier Sapphire Handle Maker Rasp

[jimi43]

Today in the post...a little box from across La Manche...containing a very special little tool....

Those of you following the UK Workshop Infill Project and Scottish Infill Smoother Restoration threads will know that this is the vital bit of kit I have been waiting for to finish these projects with ease.

Inside the box...a Certificate of Authenticity...

...which gives a rather interesting history of the company and the work that goes into one of these little beauties.

For those of you who have not seen the video CLICK HERE - it's worth it!

The handle maker version of their range has been created as a direct result of customer demand and feedback from many fine experts...such as our dear friend Klaus...in order to produce a purpose-made tool for that specific use.

The rear of the tool is "safe"..that is to say it has no teeth. This enables safe working on one side of the inner handle without the risk of accidental damage to the other. This is a key benefit, as these things are sharp and cut in the blink of an eye.

In the same way...the curvature has been optimised for the job....

...a sleek tapered curvature enabling ease of access to tricky parts.

It's difficult to see that this is a random stitch...such is the skill of the craftsman....

...but close up one can see clearly that this is hand-stitched...

I will be posting some "action" shots on both of the other threads...

I think I will refrain from my normal trick of fondling all my new tools for a while...I think that might be a mistake! :shock:

But I will be testing it out tomorrow...so look out for the results soon.

Model: Handlemaker Piqure 9 Longueur 150mm Saphir

Jim

 

[AndyT]

Lovely stuff Jim. I can see those being added to a few Christmas wish lists!
It's a bit odd though, that a special tool like that has such an ordinary looking handle itself - or is it supposed to spur you on to make something more inspirational?

 

[jimi43]

Lovely stuff Jim. I can see those being added to a few Christmas wish lists!
It's a bit odd though, that a special tool like that has such an ordinary looking handle itself - or is it supposed to spur you on to make something more inspirational?

Agreed Andy...in fact we are all in agreement with that view which is why Noel is, as we speak, sourcing some replacements more befitting the quality of the metal part.

That is probably the last time you will see that one on my version...I shall be making a Holtzapffel shaped one for this beauty out of ebony I think...or box? Contrast or stealth? mmmmmmm 8)

Jim

 

[Harbo]

Nice rasp
I bought a similar one from Tools for Working Wood in Brooklyn a few years ago - they work really well.

Rod

 

[Klaus Kretschmar]

Hi Jimi,

many congrats on this exquisite tool. You'll enjoy to work with it, it's about the finest you can get. I really love to work with Noels handle maker's rasps although currently I'm unable to do due to those d...n allergies.

This tool works amazingly fast and properly. The stitch #9 you have allows even rough initial shaping. Nevertheless the surface it leaves is relatively fine. To my understanding the quality Noel makes belongs to the very best. Worldwide.

Cheers
Klaus

 

[Max Power]

A glowing recommendation Klaus, I'll be ordering some

 

[Vann]

So Jim, now you've had your hands on it for nearly two weeks, how do you find the coarseness (is that a word)?

The reason I ask is I need to get something similar myself. I need to start making a whole bunch of saw and plane handles, and a bun. I was wondering whether one step finer might be better, or not?

You opinion would be appreciated.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[jimi43]

So Jim, now you've had your hands on it for nearly two weeks, how do you find the coarseness (is that a word)?

The reason I ask is I need to get something similar myself. I need to start making a whole bunch of saw and plane handles, and a bun. I was wondering whether one step finer might be better, or not?

You opinion would be appreciated.

Cheers, Vann.

Hi Vann

I think the thing about making irregular shapes...particularly handles, that you need the most is stock removal in tight places.

There are so many tools/methods out there for taking the next steps right up to very fine using either finer quality rasps like Liogier, other rasps or files and abrasives...that I don't find the finishing of the final shape a problem....it's the stock removal to shape that is the problem.

This is where this coarser rasp excels.

That being said...if you adjust the angle of attack and pressure you put on the tool...you can have immense control over the resultant cut. This is where this quality and the random stitching come into real use.

To have the freedom to cut fast but accurately is vital in such tight spaces....and I am by no means any good at this yet! I needed the smoother handle to practice on before I set about anything important. But like any quality product...you can become a pretty good novice with the right kit which you would struggle to achieve with mass produced tools.

The cost implications have to be taken into account...but believe me...this is a different tool to any of the highest quality ones I have used before and it is designed especially for the purpose with input from Derek and Klaus of this very parish so it's going to be top notch in that area too.

As far as getting another finer one...yes I would definitely do that in addition to the coarse one if I had lots of handles to make...just for the time saving.

If I had to choose to have either a finer one or a No.9 I would choose the latter. I wouldn't need anything coarser...even on boxwood!

Whatever grain you choose....you will not be disappointed.

Jim

 

[Vann]

If I had to choose to have either a finer one or a No.9 I would choose the latter.

That's the recommendation I was looking for. Thanks Jim.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Harbo]

I am going to disagree here - my Liogier grain 12 is coarse enough for me.

I have a few hand-stitched rasps and much prefer the finer grains simply because they cut so fast - even my Grain 15.
They cut very fast, leave a much smoother cut and require less finishing off etc.
If you cut most of the waste wood away with drilling and a bandsaw, its generally only the rounding off and final shaping that's down to the rasps, so not a lot of bulk removal?

Rod

 

[jimi43]

I am going to disagree here - my Liogier grain 12 is coarse enough for me.

I have a few hand-stitched rasps and much prefer the finer grains simply because they cut so fast - even my Grain 15.
They cut very fast, leave a much smoother cut and require less finishing off etc.
If you cut most of the waste wood away with drilling and a bandsaw, its generally only the rounding off and final shaping that's down to the rasps, so not a lot of bulk removal?

Rod

Probably a bit of terminology here...the bulk I mean is what's left from the drilling/sawing.

I see a rasp as a shaping tool primarily and I would use it to get the contours correct.

If I then had a finer one (which I intend to get)....I would move on to that but with the No.9 I was able to move from that to 60G > 80G coarse papers...then through the Abranet range 120G to 400G then through the MicroMesh 1500M to 12000M.

If I were to get a finer one then I would use one which gave the same effect as the 60G/80G step or even get the more uncommon coarse Abranet to fill that role.

I guess at the end of the day it's how you work....and there is no real answer here..and I'm sure you are just as happy as I am Rod with the finer grains. My view was that I had tools/materials to do the finer bit...what I was lacking was a fast shaping method and the No.9 certainly excels in this function.

Cheers mate

Jim

 

[Klaus Kretschmar]

I am going to disagree here - my Liogier grain 12 is coarse enough for me.

I have a few hand-stitched rasps and much prefer the finer grains simply because they cut so fast - even my Grain 15.
They cut very fast, leave a much smoother cut and require less finishing off etc.
If you cut most of the waste wood away with drilling and a bandsaw, its generally only the rounding off and final shaping that's down to the rasps, so not a lot of bulk removal?

Rod

If one owns another coarse and narrow cabinet maker's rasp or a narrow half round rasp to do the first and tricky shape of the concaves of a handle, the stitch #12 might be the better choice. If one want's to go with the handle maker's rasp from the start (after the band saw), I'd highly recommend the stitch #9 to do the first shaping. It has the remarkably better speed.

If the speed isn't a big deal, since there will be made only a few handles and there's time enough, the #12 might be a pretty good choice as well.

Klaus

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

The idea for the Liogier handle maker rasps came about when I sought to buy such a rasp from Tools for Working Wood, only to find that they were out of stock and could not say when or if they would get more manufactured (their manufacturer is in India). I then approached Noel Liogier and discussed his making them available. Why Liogier? Because they were just beginning to make their rasps known on the forums. The initial design was based on the TFWW rasp, but over the course of several months it was refined into the current shape, which involves a more even curve throughout its length than the TFWW, which has a straighter area in the first third. Input on and testing of the rasp came from several members on the Australian forum. This was a team approach.

The question of grain has come up. I have photos of the results of three grains taken during the first round of testing.

For comparison I had my Aurious. Here is a sample of the performance of all the rasps on Poplar:

Performances between the Liogier (top) and Auriou (bottom) are very similar grain-for-grain, given that the rasps are different grains. That is a 14 is similar to a 15 but with slightly more coarse, etc.

The question someone will ask is "how many rasps does one require?". I liken it to sharpening a blade: a coarse medium will hog waste away quickly. Then, however, one must remove the marks this process creates, and continue this process until you reach the finish you desire.

In the picture below the first stroke is with a coarse 9 grain rasp. The second is the 9 grain followed by a 12 and 15. The third is the 9 grain followed by only the 15 grain.

It can be seen that the three-rasp process leaves the best finish, and that jumping from a 9 grain to a 15 grain will leave a evidence of the 9 grain teeth.

Regards from Perth

Derek