Lie Nielsen tools
- Thread starter SMALMALEKI
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Adam W.
A Major Clanger
Classic hand tools have some stuff.
What is it you're after ?
What is it you're after ?
I was after a shoulder plane and would love to have one of their jointer planes in the workshop.
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
I have a LN shoulder plane which I was thinking of selling and I also have a LN No.5 which might need a new home.
I also have a No.8, but that has a scratched sole, so I might just hold on to it.
I also have a No.8, but that has a scratched sole, so I might just hold on to it.
Hi Adam
I have a shooting Board right-handed version 51 and a 5.5 jack plane in my toolbox. Thank you for the offer though.
Yorkieguy
Established Member
Thank you for the link. The fact that Axi is stating they are unlikely to receive any supply is worrying.
With one exception, all of my planes are Lie Nielsen. The only plane that isn't is my Veritas medium shoulder plane. I compared the Veritas to the LN on one of my trips back to the States and preferred the feel of the Veritas. I really wanted to like the LN version, but I bought the Veritas with the PM-V11 blade.
The Veritas is in stock at Classic Hand tools:
https://www.classichandtools.com/veritas-medium-shoulder-plane-pm-v11-blade/p1464
The Veritas is in stock at Classic Hand tools:
https://www.classichandtools.com/veritas-medium-shoulder-plane-pm-v11-blade/p1464
Devmeister
Established Member
I am beginning to worry about this. I have been after two planes. The 5.5 jack and the 51 shooting plane. Scan the website almost daily.
They did complete a small number of 5.5 planes and I ordered one almost immediately even though my name had been on the waiting lists. I never got the email. I did receive the 5.5 however. It took several months of this to get that plane.
I am still in limbo regarding the 51 plane.
Last I checked, they had availability of the 60.5 block plane and a #5 jack plane, the smaller one.
According to their website, the showroom is closed. In talking to them, they stated that they are struggling to meet demand. They build tools in small batches and service the waiting list first which is longer than the batch run. As a result they are unable to build inventory.
I sincerely hope this is the case. I have also heard that they are having problems with the foundary supplying castings. Assuming this to be true, bear in mind that they may not get the bronze castings from the same foundary that they get the iron castings. I know I have not seen a bronze #4 available for quite some time. Also availability of the Sargent block plane is out of stock as well.
This situation has been going on for some time. COVID may be responsible for closing the showroom; however, where does that leave the front employees? I would imagine they are temporarily laid off.
Many planes have been discontinued such as the scraper planes and the number 1 plane and the 49 grooving plane. Most chisels are out of stock.
According to LN, they need to focus on building core planes to catch up with demand. Over the last three months, it has been virtually impossible to get even a bench plane. The shoulder planes are in the core definition.
The issue is that nothing much has been visable from the outside. I have my name on notification lists but have not been notified at all. My new 5.5 has a mid feb build date.
Either LN is building planes as fast as they can and the exit just as quickly or there is a greater more serious issue. I would imagine dealers like a axminster would have their name on the list and at least get a few of something.
If LN is not shipping planes, then it begs to ask the question how long this can continue as the holding costs are significant. I will say I am concerned.
Veritas represents a high end competitor and there are a number of low end competitors as well. Only time will answer this. In the interim some LN planes have sold used for stupid money.
Right now I would like to get a 51 as well as the fixed blade scraper and possibly a 49 TG plane. It’s crazy!
They did complete a small number of 5.5 planes and I ordered one almost immediately even though my name had been on the waiting lists. I never got the email. I did receive the 5.5 however. It took several months of this to get that plane.
I am still in limbo regarding the 51 plane.
Last I checked, they had availability of the 60.5 block plane and a #5 jack plane, the smaller one.
According to their website, the showroom is closed. In talking to them, they stated that they are struggling to meet demand. They build tools in small batches and service the waiting list first which is longer than the batch run. As a result they are unable to build inventory.
I sincerely hope this is the case. I have also heard that they are having problems with the foundary supplying castings. Assuming this to be true, bear in mind that they may not get the bronze castings from the same foundary that they get the iron castings. I know I have not seen a bronze #4 available for quite some time. Also availability of the Sargent block plane is out of stock as well.
This situation has been going on for some time. COVID may be responsible for closing the showroom; however, where does that leave the front employees? I would imagine they are temporarily laid off.
Many planes have been discontinued such as the scraper planes and the number 1 plane and the 49 grooving plane. Most chisels are out of stock.
According to LN, they need to focus on building core planes to catch up with demand. Over the last three months, it has been virtually impossible to get even a bench plane. The shoulder planes are in the core definition.
The issue is that nothing much has been visable from the outside. I have my name on notification lists but have not been notified at all. My new 5.5 has a mid feb build date.
Either LN is building planes as fast as they can and the exit just as quickly or there is a greater more serious issue. I would imagine dealers like a axminster would have their name on the list and at least get a few of something.
If LN is not shipping planes, then it begs to ask the question how long this can continue as the holding costs are significant. I will say I am concerned.
Veritas represents a high end competitor and there are a number of low end competitors as well. Only time will answer this. In the interim some LN planes have sold used for stupid money.
Right now I would like to get a 51 as well as the fixed blade scraper and possibly a 49 TG plane. It’s crazy!
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
I hope it's not the case that LN are on their last legs. (Beautiful and quality tools undoubtedly but also a little over-hyped imho)
Clifton are a sometimes overlooked Sheffield based manufacturer for those wanting quality and/or to avoid feeding the Chinese economy.
Clifton are a sometimes overlooked Sheffield based manufacturer for those wanting quality and/or to avoid feeding the Chinese economy.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
They are indeed on some products however they are quoting likely timescales
The only problem with Clifton is their price. For Lie Nielsen, they are cheaper in the states but Clifton is asking for the premium price even before export duties and other costs.
In mho, they should review their pricing strategy.
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I've seen their workshop and manufacturing facilities.
It's a small company with limited capacity. They produce Clifton planes and lots of different hand saws.
Covid lockdown caused an increased demand for hand tools and a reduction in manufacturing capacity.
I prefer old Clifton tools better.
AJB Temple
Finely figured
It sounds like LN is ripe for an entrepreneurial take over to sort out their failure to meet demand. Good tools. So are Clifton.
Devmeister
Established Member
I own one Clifton plane… a small shoulder plane.. the 410. It’s every bit as good as LN but not as sexy with no manganese bronze. But it’s at least 30 years old. There was a recent buyout of Clifton and I am not sure what that means.
The bench planes I looked into were finished out in green paint. Not sure if Clifton is still doing that these days. What I saw initially impressed me. If any folks in England could elaborate on this?
I also believe that Clifton planes are not based on the bed rock design. But I was not able to locate a ready source of these planes. Most UK eBay sellers do not ship to the states.
LN did update their website with a new explanation but in general all mentioned is still valid. Lots of stuff discontinued. Core planes broken into core tools and core 2 tools with emphasis on core tools with runs of core 2 tools on a space available basis.
The bronze #4 smother is discontinued pending issue resolution with bronze castings from the foundary. Not sure if they have a bronze issue across the board.
LN has for the most part kept true to the original designs. Shoulder planes are based on old record designs which were copied from Preston designs.
Vetitas like many modern infill makers as well, have set out to modernize the designs and find odd faults with the old designs where none existed. Veritas quality is first rate but they are indeed over hyped.
Finding tools made by the quality makers has been extremely problematic over the last year. Not just LN or Clifton. Everybody is sold out.
The bench planes I looked into were finished out in green paint. Not sure if Clifton is still doing that these days. What I saw initially impressed me. If any folks in England could elaborate on this?
I also believe that Clifton planes are not based on the bed rock design. But I was not able to locate a ready source of these planes. Most UK eBay sellers do not ship to the states.
LN did update their website with a new explanation but in general all mentioned is still valid. Lots of stuff discontinued. Core planes broken into core tools and core 2 tools with emphasis on core tools with runs of core 2 tools on a space available basis.
The bronze #4 smother is discontinued pending issue resolution with bronze castings from the foundary. Not sure if they have a bronze issue across the board.
LN has for the most part kept true to the original designs. Shoulder planes are based on old record designs which were copied from Preston designs.
Vetitas like many modern infill makers as well, have set out to modernize the designs and find odd faults with the old designs where none existed. Veritas quality is first rate but they are indeed over hyped.
Finding tools made by the quality makers has been extremely problematic over the last year. Not just LN or Clifton. Everybody is sold out.
Here's a more realistic take on LN - they don't make that much profit and aren't going to overextend themselves to their detriment or the detriment of their employees.
We saw this once before when woodcraft wanted to make demands about their production volume, etc, and guaranteeing supply. LN eventually expanded, but TLN made the comment about expanding in a sensible way.
Some of this may be temporary, and some may not be temporary, but LN is in Maine in the US and their virtues aren't the same as other folks who want to grow real fast, extract as much as they can from a business and then either let it fail or sell as long as they got theirs. Maine is almost like stepping back in time 100 years in some ways once you get north of portland. Some of the hotels there still only take reservations over phone.
The real problem here is that the money supply shot up over the last two years and the demand has, too. Realistically, if they have 80 or 90 employees and are selling what they make, a 10% increase in business puts a strain on supply. However, they go short on production and I'll bet demand around the entire world has doubled, but it may be temporary. The only way they can afford some bloated fast expansion with a nasty loan overhead is to raise prices significantly or decrease the cost of what they're making (import it). It's not the way things go in Maine. If it lasts a little while longer, they'll probably get bigger but not in a way that exposes them.
We saw this once before when woodcraft wanted to make demands about their production volume, etc, and guaranteeing supply. LN eventually expanded, but TLN made the comment about expanding in a sensible way.
Some of this may be temporary, and some may not be temporary, but LN is in Maine in the US and their virtues aren't the same as other folks who want to grow real fast, extract as much as they can from a business and then either let it fail or sell as long as they got theirs. Maine is almost like stepping back in time 100 years in some ways once you get north of portland. Some of the hotels there still only take reservations over phone.
The real problem here is that the money supply shot up over the last two years and the demand has, too. Realistically, if they have 80 or 90 employees and are selling what they make, a 10% increase in business puts a strain on supply. However, they go short on production and I'll bet demand around the entire world has doubled, but it may be temporary. The only way they can afford some bloated fast expansion with a nasty loan overhead is to raise prices significantly or decrease the cost of what they're making (import it). It's not the way things go in Maine. If it lasts a little while longer, they'll probably get bigger but not in a way that exposes them.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
I believe Clifton were part of a small specialist engineering company in Sheffield called Clico who also made parts for the aviation industry. They either went under or sold Clifton to Thomas Flinn & Co who are a small saw maker that seemed to have re-established itself over the last ten years.
Broadly, the pre TF & Co planes were British racing green and the post ones are now black.
