Lidl DIY tools 6th June

[sploo]

Fergie, not going to argue, i agree that stick really should be where you start with welding.

Yea, but isn't flux core just stick in a gun

I have:

1. Zero welding experience
2. The Parkside flux core welder I bought at the weekend

I suspect I'll soon have:

1. Lots of pigeon sh*te weld splatter
2. Some burns
3. (still) two separate pieces of metal

...but I'll do my best to post the results of my incompetence at some point; assuming I still have hands.

 

[novocaine]

Sploo old bean, make your life easier. Spent a tenner on a reel of super 6 wire.

Everyone ive ever taught ( or shown how really) has been able to weld a passable bead in an hour or less, most within half that on any type. They might not have been "STACKING DIMES" or whatever the instagram welders call it, but it was a nice crown woth a smooth cap which for me is enough.

 

[petermillard]

I don't think it's quite fair to say the Lidl saw has proprietary rails, they are very similar to lots of other tracks and all companies seem to have their own little changes. With modification I would guess the Lidl saw could be made to run on Makita tracks, it definitely runs on Evolution tracks (also "proprietary") and I run my lidl saw mostly on a Festool track, no mods needed.

I think proprietary is an apt description - Lidl/Parkside are the only people I'm aware of who make use of that specific profile for the guiderail - a standard central rib, but an open 'C-shape' channel at the left-hand side. As you say, others go their own way with the guiderail design and this sometimes causes major issues - eg the Aldi/Scheppach design - and sometimes it simply makes fitting accessories and things a bit more of a challenge, like with the Evolution rails. I always try and think about ownership further down the line though - if someone outgrows their saw, and wants to upgrade to something with a little more finesse, can they keep their investment - likely as much again as the entry-level saw - in extra guiderails? At the moment, your choice of additional rail is limited with the Parkside because it doesn't fit on the widely-copied Makita pattern rails, hence my preference for the MacAllister - that and a better quality cut out of the box. But that aside they're both remarkable saws for the money.

 

[sploo]

Sploo old bean, make your life easier. Spent a tenner on a reel of super 6 wire.

Everyone ive ever taught ( or shown how really) has been able to weld a passable bead in an hour or less, most within half that on any type. They might not have been "STACKING DIMES" or whatever the instagram welders call it, but it was a nice crown woth a smooth cap which for me is enough.

Interesting. Is there something special about it vs "stock"/OEM flux core wire?

 

[Rorschach]

I think proprietary is an apt description - Lidl/Parkside are the only people I'm aware of who make use of that specific profile for the guiderail - a standard central rib, but an open 'C-shape' channel at the left-hand side. As you say, others go their own way with the guiderail design and this sometimes causes major issues - eg the Aldi/Scheppach design - and sometimes it simply makes fitting accessories and things a bit more of a challenge, like with the Evolution rails. I always try and think about ownership further down the line though - if someone outgrows their saw, and wants to upgrade to something with a little more finesse, can they keep their investment - likely as much again as the entry-level saw - in extra guiderails? At the moment, your choice of additional rail is limited with the Parkside because it doesn't fit on the widely-copied Makita pattern rails, hence my preference for the MacAllister - that and a better quality cut out of the box. But that aside they're both remarkable saws for the money.

Yes I see your point. When I bought my Parkside (1st gen so quite old now) the most important thing to me was that it fit on Festool tracks as they were the most common "standard" at the time. I never bothered ordering extra Lidl tracks, I just waited for a good sale and bought a Festool track instead. I rarely use the lidl tracks as the festool is clearly superior and more useful, but saw works great for me.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I think when I looked there, the R185CCS was not the track compatible model, that was the R185CCSX
But I may have been confused.

I emailed this morning to check - yes, it's track compatible. I did suggest they alter the details to show it.

Great customer service, they got back to me in less than an hour. DHL have promised the track this afternoon.

 

[novocaine]

Interesting. Is there something special about it vs "stock"/OEM flux core wire?

It has a more consistant flux and is a nicer filler metal. The oem stuff is a bit like rubbish rods really, rubbish filler and lots of additives in the flux.

 

[Gary_S]

Speaking of Lidl rails, I have two pieces of rail if anyone is near Marlborough Wiltshire. My son wedged the saw and the capacitor popped.

 

[Rorschach]

Speaking of Lidl rails, I have two pieces of rail if anyone is near Marlborough Wiltshire. My son wedged the saw and the capacitor popped.

Not fixable?

 

[Fergie 307]

Thank you for finding a video that collaborates everything i said.

Fergie, not going to argue, i agree that stick really should be where you start with welding.
Tig for car body though is just terrible unless you've got the panel on a table. You can't weld upside down, or on a windy day, or less than perfect metal, or where you cant get two hands a and a long rod in. Mig is still the tool of choice for almost all body shops, for a very good reason.

I was thinking more restoration work where you have a bare shell on a turner, or panels, and looking to butt in replacement sections as neatly as possible. Not looking to try and weld rust, or do it outside in the wind. For putting new metal on your bent Ford Focus on a bodyshop then yes MIG is more convenient.
If the guy just wants to weld nuts on something then get a fifty quid stick machine.
very good observation in the video is the importance of covering up to avoid "sunburn".
I can only go from my own experience of helping out a number of people who have had real problems with cheap DIY type flux core machines, usually the gas/no gas variety. These tend to work pretty well in gas mode, but no so well in gasless/flux core. Sometimes just a question of them using the wrong technique, but often down to the machine not being very good so that is very difficult to get a decent result even if you are used to the technique. Let's face it the machine your man in the video is using is hardy your Lidl special.
Let's see how the guy who posed the question gets on with whatever he buys.
Or maybe there is a complete beginner out there who has bought one of these, and let's hear what he or she thinks.

 

[Fergie 307]

Yea, but isn't flux core just stick in a gun

I have:

1. Zero welding experience
2. The Parkside flux core welder I bought at the weekend

I suspect I'll soon have:

1. Lots of pigeon sh*te weld splatter
2. Some burns
3. (still) two separate pieces of metal

...but I'll do my best to post the results of my incompetence at some point; assuming I still have hands.

Good luck Sploo, and it will be interesting to see how you get on. As Novocaine says some decent wire will definitely make your life easier. Watch the videos and practice on some scrap, probably good to practice on something 3mm or more thick. Once you get the hang of it you can go thinner, but anything 1mm or less you will probably struggle with. A really big help is one of the helmets that darkens automatically as you strike the arc. Probably too great an expense for occasional use, but definitely worthwhile if you get into it. You generally want to use both hands, so a helmet you can flick down by nodding your head is a must really. The type you have to hold is not much use other than for tacking up.
If you don't already know then please don't look at the arc without the shield, even for a few seconds, you will get arc eye. Very unpleasant and painful, and can potentially cause permanent damage to your eyesight.

 

[sploo]

Yes; I did decide to buy the auto darkening helmet that Lidl were offering, as I'd heard the supplied mask was pretty useless.

I got a few minutes this afternoon to get it going and have a try (hey, why not rush something you've never done before eh?). Anyway - I did suit & boot up, gloves, plus mask. Loaded the 0.9mm wire that came with the machine, put both dials at 12 o'clock (middle settings for wire feed speed and power), and had a go at laying down a bead on some 25x6mm mild steel bar:

OK, so I was moving too fast. Second attempt:

Not completely appalling.

I then grabbed an offcut of more 25x6 and tried to tack it on, then ran a fillet:

I went too fast for the middle section, and basically laid down nothing, so went over the whole lot again more slowly. The middle run of fillet isn't absolutely terrible I guess, but the start and finish are pretty ropey. It does appear to have held together though.

Having never even picked up a welder before I'm reasonably pleased; nowhere near as scary as I thought it would be, but I do now appreciate the level of skill required to balance the wire feed speed, power, travel speed, torch-to-workpiece distance, and rolling/circling motion to lay down a good bead.

I understand that this welder really isn't suited for anything over about 5mm, so having run it nowhere near full power I'm surprised it worked that well on 6mm material - but then I assume the weld probably won't have penetrated that far into the material.

But, a promising start. And plenty of pigeon sh*te splatter as promised

 

[novocaine]

Promising.
You fillet isnt aimed at the root of the c9rner so its building on the base with little tie in to the upright. Lower the angle to push the weld in to the corner at around 30 degrees. This will help to push the pool up the wall and g6wt rid of some of the undercut.
Dont bother forming loops. Nice slow speed,maybe with a little wiggle to occasionally push the pool back up the side but just a straight run with do.
Wire speed down till you can feel it burning back up the wire then add a touch. Amps, as hot as you can without burnig a hole.

I've seen lifw saving hand rails with worse.

 

[Fergie 307]

Yes; I did decide to buy the auto darkening helmet that Lidl were offering, as I'd heard the supplied mask was pretty useless.

I got a few minutes this afternoon to get it going and have a try (hey, why not rush something you've never done before eh?). Anyway - I did suit & boot up, gloves, plus mask. Loaded the 0.9mm wire that came with the machine, put both dials at 12 o'clock (middle settings for wire feed speed and power), and had a go at laying down a bead on some 25x6mm mild steel bar:

View attachment 111960

OK, so I was moving too fast. Second attempt:

View attachment 111961

Not completely appalling.

I then grabbed an offcut of more 25x6 and tried to tack it on, then ran a fillet:

View attachment 111962

I went too fast for the middle section, and basically laid down nothing, so went over the whole lot again more slowly. The middle run of fillet isn't absolutely terrible I guess, but the start and finish are pretty ropey. It does appear to have held together though.

Having never even picked up a welder before I'm reasonably pleased; nowhere near as scary as I thought it would be, but I do now appreciate the level of skill required to balance the wire feed speed, power, travel speed, torch-to-workpiece distance, and rolling/circling motion to lay down a good bead.

I understand that this welder really isn't suited for anything over about 5mm, so having run it nowhere near full power I'm surprised it worked that well on 6mm material - but then I assume the weld probably won't have penetrated that far into the material.

But, a promising start. And plenty of pigeon sh*te splatter as promised

Hey, that's not bad at all for a first go. You may find it easier to practice first on a butt joint, leaving a small gap, between the two pieces. Once you have cracked that then start building up the angle, maybe start at 45 degrees. That will get you used to keeping the wire feeding into the root of the joint rather than sticking to one side. Looking at what you have done I would think you need a bit more power. As NovocaIne says don't be afraid of it you need to get it good and hot to get good penetration. With some practice you will see your welds spread a bit wider and flatter as they penetrate more. Just a question of getting the balance right between power, wire feed and speed of progress. Just try varying the distance from the work and angle slightly until you find the sweet spot. Personally I find that just a gentle side to side wiggle works best, rather than trying to describe circles. Bevelling the edges helps on thicker stuff. Looks like this is much better than the early DIY ones I used, so I happily stand corrected. Will be interesting to see how it does on thinner stuff once you have some practice, but looking pretty good so far. Glad it worked out for you.

 

[Fergie 307]

Sorry when I say 45 degrees I mean welding the obtuse side, so you are just welding a fairly shallow angle to get used to following along the root, then crank it up towards 90 degrees once you get the hang of it.

 

[sploo]

Promising.
You fillet isnt aimed at the root of the c9rner so its building on the base with little tie in to the upright. Lower the angle to push the weld in to the corner at around 30 degrees. This will help to push the pool up the wall and g6wt rid of some of the undercut.

I noticed the same; an apparently good bond to the base, but a bit of a gap to the upright. I wondered if I should aim higher, but I'll try your suggestion on my next test.

I did give it a quick attack with a hammer after my previous post, and despite looking rough it did stay together.

Quite looking forward to trying some more, as it could be really useful for a number of jobs where I've previously had to 'bodge' with bolts.

 

[sploo]

Got a bit of time for another go today. I broke the previous weld, and there wasn't much penetration - which I guess backs up the guidance to turn the power up.

I kept the wire speed the same, but turned the power to max. A good start, but I wandered off the fillet due to having the helmet set too dark. I think I've just about dialled it in now so I can see the weld pool, but also a bit of the material I'm actually welding (i.e. so I know where the tip of the gun is). Looks like there was a bit of porosity about 2/3rd of the way:

Possibly a bit heavy/slow at the end, but it seems like a pretty strong weld:

I also tried tacking some 12mm ID (2mm wall thickness) steel tube onto the end of the 25x6mm bar - for a project idea I have. I turned the power down and was probably a bit too cautious with it, but having removed the splatter from the inside of the tube with a reamer a 12mm rod slides through fine (I was worried the tube would warp due to the heat). I did then try to break the tube off using the (1m long) 12mm rod, and it was clear I was going to bend the rod before the tube broke, so despite the weld being rough it's plenty strong enough for my uses:

 

[NickDReed]

Got a bit of time for another go today. I broke the previous weld, and there wasn't much penetration - which I guess backs up the guidance to turn the power up.

I kept the wire speed the same, but turned the power to max. A good start, but I wandered off the fillet due to having the helmet set too dark. I think I've just about dialled it in now so I can see the weld pool, but also a bit of the material I'm actually welding (i.e. so I know where the tip of the gun is). Looks like there was a bit of porosity about 2/3rd of the way:

View attachment 112033

Possibly a bit heavy/slow at the end, but it seems like a pretty strong weld:

View attachment 112031

I also tried tacking some 12mm ID (2mm wall thickness) steel tube onto the end of the 25x6mm bar - for a project idea I have. I turned the power down and was probably a bit too cautious with it, but having removed the splatter from the inside of the tube with a reamer a 12mm rod slides through fine (I was worried the tube would warp due to the heat). I did then try to break the tube off using the (1m long) 12mm rod, and it was clear I was going to bend the rod before the tube broke, so despite the weld being rough it's plenty strong enough for my uses:

View attachment 112032

If I can do anything like this with mine after a couple of goes I'll be very happy.

 

[TRITON]

If the guy

I have a username

 

[powertools]

Got a bit of time for another go today. I broke the previous weld, and there wasn't much penetration - which I guess backs up the guidance to turn the power up.

I kept the wire speed the same, but turned the power to max. A good start, but I wandered off the fillet due to having the helmet set too dark. I think I've just about dialled it in now so I can see the weld pool, but also a bit of the material I'm actually welding (i.e. so I know where the tip of the gun is). Looks like there was a bit of porosity about 2/3rd of the way:

View attachment 112033

Possibly a bit heavy/slow at the end, but it seems like a pretty strong weld:

View attachment 112031

I also tried tacking some 12mm ID (2mm wall thickness) steel tube onto the end of the 25x6mm bar - for a project idea I have. I turned the power down and was probably a bit too cautious with it, but having removed the splatter from the inside of the tube with a reamer a 12mm rod slides through fine (I was worried the tube would warp due to the heat). I did then try to break the tube off using the (1m long) 12mm rod, and it was clear I was going to bend the rod before the tube broke, so despite the weld being rough it's plenty strong enough for my uses:

View attachment 112032

If those are your first attempts at welding with the cheapest machine on the planet it shows how much understanding you have of what you are doing and how good the machine is. Give it a bit more practice and you will be well sorted.