RogerP
Established Member
Axminster bandsaw manual ...AES":o9632aub said:
Leave BS in tension or not??
- Thread starter Alexam
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RogerP":2n5phm5b said:
On the other hand, the Record BS350S manual advises:
I don't suppose either company conducted any kind of failure mode analysis before writing their guidance! I guess it depends on your definition of 'a period'
Alexam
Bandsaw Boxmaker
That's an interesting statement by Axminster Roger. Could it be that the belts on older machines may have needed a 'breather' and the modern machines not so?
I did notice this morning, whilst having a further inspection of the Record BS400, that the tyres on the wheels are flat and wide, compared with the 'domed' tyre on my small older DeWalt bandsaw. The machine in the shop was under tension, so there seems to be no concern that tension is maintained ....... although another BS 300 machine was not so.
Alex
I did notice this morning, whilst having a further inspection of the Record BS400, that the tyres on the wheels are flat and wide, compared with the 'domed' tyre on my small older DeWalt bandsaw. The machine in the shop was under tension, so there seems to be no concern that tension is maintained ....... although another BS 300 machine was not so.
Alex
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
Which manufacturers advice would you judge as the more credible: the company who makes the Startrite brand and has been in business over a 100 years and is an acknowledged specialist in bandsaw manufacture (despite taking advantage of far eastern labour costs)..............or a retailer who distributes a plethora of different far eastern made machines from a variety of sources and whose manuals are absolutely notorious for omissions and errors?
This is by no means designed to denigrate Axy because I love them to bits and have spent thousands in there myself. But I think in terms of bandsaws, you have to assume Record have more experience and superior knowledge as a premium manufacturer that own and manage the intellectual capital for their own designs. The fact they outsource some of the labour to cheaper economies doesn't detract from their understanding of the design principles in play. Therefore personally, I would always trust their advice, documented or otherwise over a generalist like Axy.
This is by no means designed to denigrate Axy because I love them to bits and have spent thousands in there myself. But I think in terms of bandsaws, you have to assume Record have more experience and superior knowledge as a premium manufacturer that own and manage the intellectual capital for their own designs. The fact they outsource some of the labour to cheaper economies doesn't detract from their understanding of the design principles in play. Therefore personally, I would always trust their advice, documented or otherwise over a generalist like Axy.
I suppose, being charitable, both approaches could be right depending on machine and blade?
Axminster may have looked at their offering and looking at the gauge of steel/construction decided that the fewer times it was cycled through tension the better its chances; Record on the other hand may have decided that their years of experience and choice of materials/design meant that the tensioning/de-tensioning wasn't an issue for their machine.
My view is that I'll use the saw intensively for a spell during which the tension only gets released for blade changes and then it may sit unused for several weeks when I release the tension. On the question of blades potentially suffering, I'd rather take the hit on stressing consumable blades than the saw.
Axminster may have looked at their offering and looking at the gauge of steel/construction decided that the fewer times it was cycled through tension the better its chances; Record on the other hand may have decided that their years of experience and choice of materials/design meant that the tensioning/de-tensioning wasn't an issue for their machine.
My view is that I'll use the saw intensively for a spell during which the tension only gets released for blade changes and then it may sit unused for several weeks when I release the tension. On the question of blades potentially suffering, I'd rather take the hit on stressing consumable blades than the saw.
RogerP
Established Member
KevM":a9lz3r09 said:
So Axminster say - I don't really have a strong opinion - I'm too lazy to keep faffing with my bandsaw tension and just leave it set. No problems over many years.
AES
Established Member
BANGGG!!!!
This is turning into a thread of more than just academic interest to me Gents, thanks for all the opinions & inputs.
As said back on page 1, I always de-tension the blade on my little cheapo BS.
(QUOTE: @custard: .........
Anyway, personally I can't see that de-tensioning does any harm, and it MAY help extend the life of the tool. It's just a question of getting into the habit. UNQUOTE)
So imagine my shock when using my BS this morning, with an almost new Tuffsaws blade when with an almighty bang, the blade broke. Frightened the life out of me!
I last used the BS last Thursday, de-tensioned as usual, and re-tensioned again this morning (2 turns, as per usual).
Looking at the blade (a 6mm wide 6 TPI "general purpose" item - Isaid it's a little BS) I see that it has NOT broken at the weld. BTW I was cutting half inch ply at 90 degrees and straight along the top grain, and didn't do anything silly re cutting angle, jerks, etc.
I shall of course E-mail Ian at Tuffsaws to ask him what he thinks, but in the meantime I note the advice from the Startrite manual (obviously a respected name but in a MUCH better class than my machine) posted above, as opposed to that from Axi; and also the point made by Steve Maskery about hearing of blade breakage.
In short I have far too little knowledge and info to really know much about this topic but this morning's break was both a shock and a surprise (I've never before had any problem with Tuffsaw blades).
More when I hear from Tuffsaws.
Krgds
AES
P.S. Sorry custard if I misunderstood your sarcasm/humour earlier
This is turning into a thread of more than just academic interest to me Gents, thanks for all the opinions & inputs.
As said back on page 1, I always de-tension the blade on my little cheapo BS.
(QUOTE: @custard: .........
Anyway, personally I can't see that de-tensioning does any harm, and it MAY help extend the life of the tool. It's just a question of getting into the habit. UNQUOTE)
So imagine my shock when using my BS this morning, with an almost new Tuffsaws blade when with an almighty bang, the blade broke. Frightened the life out of me!
I last used the BS last Thursday, de-tensioned as usual, and re-tensioned again this morning (2 turns, as per usual).
Looking at the blade (a 6mm wide 6 TPI "general purpose" item - Isaid it's a little BS) I see that it has NOT broken at the weld. BTW I was cutting half inch ply at 90 degrees and straight along the top grain, and didn't do anything silly re cutting angle, jerks, etc.
I shall of course E-mail Ian at Tuffsaws to ask him what he thinks, but in the meantime I note the advice from the Startrite manual (obviously a respected name but in a MUCH better class than my machine) posted above, as opposed to that from Axi; and also the point made by Steve Maskery about hearing of blade breakage.
In short I have far too little knowledge and info to really know much about this topic but this morning's break was both a shock and a surprise (I've never before had any problem with Tuffsaw blades).
More when I hear from Tuffsaws.
Krgds
AES
P.S. Sorry custard if I misunderstood your sarcasm/humour earlier
Ed Bray
Established Member
I never used my Bandsaw for about 6 years until a few weeks ago (I bought it in the late 90s and never really took to it, mainly as I did not really know what I was doing with it), I ordered some new blades but thought I would try the 3/4" 3 TPI one in the machine 'just to see' if it was okay.
The blade had been under full tension all that time (and actually since new as that was the blade I bought with it) and it had sat in the same position in the machine, I even checked the tyres with a dial gauge when I finally changed the blade and there was a barely perceptible spot on the tyre which was very slightly thinner. I cleaned the machine up, spent an hour de-rusting the table with first light wet & dry, then Scotchbrite and finally 0000 wire wool all wetted with Duck Oil. Looks like new now. Well I managed to move the blade guard and reset all the bearings and guides up as per videos on you-tube and guess what? The blade cut beautifully, no different than the new replacement did, there is no evident change during the cutting process and I am actually enjoying using the band saw for the first time since I got it about 15 years ago.
The blade had been under full tension all that time (and actually since new as that was the blade I bought with it) and it had sat in the same position in the machine, I even checked the tyres with a dial gauge when I finally changed the blade and there was a barely perceptible spot on the tyre which was very slightly thinner. I cleaned the machine up, spent an hour de-rusting the table with first light wet & dry, then Scotchbrite and finally 0000 wire wool all wetted with Duck Oil. Looks like new now. Well I managed to move the blade guard and reset all the bearings and guides up as per videos on you-tube and guess what? The blade cut beautifully, no different than the new replacement did, there is no evident change during the cutting process and I am actually enjoying using the band saw for the first time since I got it about 15 years ago.
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
nowt
custard
Established Member
AES":1odqqxus said:
Not at all, it was just a throw away comment to provoke some thought.
I can't think of any harm that slackening a bandsaw would do, so if you've got the time then go for it! I would point out that in the professional workshops I've known the bandsaws aren't generally slacked off except over the Christmas break, I guess they're balancing the risk of someone starting the machine with a slack blade and/or incorrectly tensioning it (pretty high!), against the risk of a flat spot on the tyre (pretty low).
paulm
IG paulm_outdoors
So has anybody anywhere actually reported a problem known to result from leaving a bandsaw tensioned all the time ?
If I didn't have to go and bbq some dinner I might google and see what's out in internet land and whether there are lots of reports of actual problems or just speculation that it might be a bad thing ?
As mentioned before I've not had any known problems over the last dozen years or so, but maybe just been lucky, or maybe it really just isn't an issue
Cheers, Paul
If I didn't have to go and bbq some dinner I might google and see what's out in internet land and whether there are lots of reports of actual problems or just speculation that it might be a bad thing ?
As mentioned before I've not had any known problems over the last dozen years or so, but maybe just been lucky, or maybe it really just isn't an issue
Cheers, Paul
AES
Established Member
Gents,
As per my “BANG!!” post (p2 above) I contacted Ian John of Tuffsaws and, with his permission, here are the relevant parts of his reply. I simply added the highlighting where I thought it important:
QUOTE:
It's really difficult to find a reason for a blade breaking as there's so many variables and it could be down to one issue or a number of small issues.
I tend to keep the tension on most of the time on my band saw and only take it off when I know I won't be using the band saw for a while - what I usually do is turn the wheels a little bit when I pass the band saw so that the strain isn't on the same part of the tyre all the time. With a lot of the smaller band saws it probably does more damage taking the tension on and off all the time as it's pretty easy to alter the tension slightly.
The most common reasons for blades breaking are, tension (too much or too little), guides not set correctly, feed rate too fast, incorrect tooth pitch being used, or just a faulty blade.
A band saw with small diameter wheels can throw up more problems that a bigger band saw. Some will happily run one type of blade with no problem while a different machine but identical model will have all sorts of problems running the same blade.
Depending on the band saw and material being cut, changing the cutting speed or the type of blade being used can help. Unfortunately on a lot of the smaller band saws, they tend to only have one cutting speed and limited choice of blade types.
[AES Note: My BS is single speed and the wheels are only 200 mm dia.]
-----------------------------------------
[AES: I thanked Ian for his detailed reply and asked if he objected to me posting the relevant parts of his msg on UKW. Here’s his answer.]
There's no problem using parts of the email - just have to point out that it's only my opinion and most manufacturers still say to release the tension when not in use.
My band saw is over 20 years old and only a small Kity so nothing fancy and leaving the tension on hasn't done any harm to the bearings, frame or tyres. It's pretty well built mind which does help.
[AES: I cannot seriously claim that my little Einhell BS is “pretty well built”].
When I want to cut something, I just want to switch the band saw on and use it, not re-tension every time.
Band saws with a quick release for the tension are great though but not all band saws have these.
UNQUOTE:
A clear example of the sort of customer service one can expect from Tuffsaws, (and “hot knives and butter” spring to mind when using his blades too)!
I have certainly learnt something new (now perhaps I’ll only de-tension if not likely to use the BS for a week or more). I hope this may help others too.
Krgds
AES
As per my “BANG!!” post (p2 above) I contacted Ian John of Tuffsaws and, with his permission, here are the relevant parts of his reply. I simply added the highlighting where I thought it important:
QUOTE:
It's really difficult to find a reason for a blade breaking as there's so many variables and it could be down to one issue or a number of small issues.
I tend to keep the tension on most of the time on my band saw and only take it off when I know I won't be using the band saw for a while - what I usually do is turn the wheels a little bit when I pass the band saw so that the strain isn't on the same part of the tyre all the time. With a lot of the smaller band saws it probably does more damage taking the tension on and off all the time as it's pretty easy to alter the tension slightly.
The most common reasons for blades breaking are, tension (too much or too little), guides not set correctly, feed rate too fast, incorrect tooth pitch being used, or just a faulty blade.
A band saw with small diameter wheels can throw up more problems that a bigger band saw. Some will happily run one type of blade with no problem while a different machine but identical model will have all sorts of problems running the same blade.
Depending on the band saw and material being cut, changing the cutting speed or the type of blade being used can help. Unfortunately on a lot of the smaller band saws, they tend to only have one cutting speed and limited choice of blade types.
[AES Note: My BS is single speed and the wheels are only 200 mm dia.]
-----------------------------------------
[AES: I thanked Ian for his detailed reply and asked if he objected to me posting the relevant parts of his msg on UKW. Here’s his answer.]
There's no problem using parts of the email - just have to point out that it's only my opinion and most manufacturers still say to release the tension when not in use.
My band saw is over 20 years old and only a small Kity so nothing fancy and leaving the tension on hasn't done any harm to the bearings, frame or tyres. It's pretty well built mind which does help.
[AES: I cannot seriously claim that my little Einhell BS is “pretty well built”].
When I want to cut something, I just want to switch the band saw on and use it, not re-tension every time.
Band saws with a quick release for the tension are great though but not all band saws have these.
UNQUOTE:
A clear example of the sort of customer service one can expect from Tuffsaws, (and “hot knives and butter” spring to mind when using his blades too)!
I have certainly learnt something new (now perhaps I’ll only de-tension if not likely to use the BS for a week or more). I hope this may help others too.
Krgds
AES
paulm
IG paulm_outdoors
AES":3rgk8oim said:
Why a week ? Mine sometimes doesn't get used for a month or three and no discernible harm results ?
Cheers, Paul
gregmcateer
Established Member
Bluekingfisher":8cfv91x4 said:
You LEAVE the shop!?! Shame on you, sir :lol:
