Lathe progression?

[deema]

When I restore Union Graduatea, I build the VFD inside the lathe the user just sees a plug and gas al, of the controls where the originals were as an alternative solution to having the VFD outside. There were two standards colours for the Union Graduate.

 

[Fergie 307]

Hi,



Thanks for asking ; unfortunately I can't compare for you because I've never run a Wadkin BZL lathe; however I can state the big Dominion wood turning lathe I owned was a right pain to use; it didn't have a clutch and because of its size it took ages to slow down and come up to speed; it was 3 phase 415V; I had bought a Transwave 7.5hp static converter and detested this converter with a passion it being extremely poor on starting power under load and if on the Colchester taking a heavy cut it used to chatter its head off; I was forever adjusting the Transwave control between machines; in the end I got rid of my big 3 phase machines just because of the converter. I did however modify the Dominion adding a long lever at the front; when I pulled the lever to horizontal it would lock and physically raise the motor hence the drive belt was allowed to slip thereby affording a crude clutch letting the motor run but being able to stop the mandrel. Both the Colchester and Dominion were simply too big and with the poor Transwave winding me up I sold the lot.

My Graduate is a joy to own and use; I can state what it's like to own my Graduate but it came at a cost and needed a comprehensive rebuild and heavy upgrade. The Graduate came out of an academy where it had been badly abused virtually reducing it to scrap; I like buying old cast iron machines in such condition because I get them much cheaper and being a mechanical engineer with a decent workshop it's no problem for me to restore any such machine.

I replaced the headstock bearings and drive belt; next I replaced the 3/4hp single phase motor with a top quality 3 phase inverter rated Brook motor at 1.5hp. I already had a VFD I'd bought and used on my Jubilee; here's the type of VFD I have mine is a 3hp but runs a 1.5hp motor happily with parameter adjustments.

View attachment 101775


Once set up with a VFD then forget about belt changing for speed just turn the dial for full variable speed also forward & reverse aren't a problem; these VFD's make a motor virtually talk but for a novice they are extremely complicated to connect and adjust the parameters. The Graduate will be a better machine due to availability of parts through places such as eBay but for me I can make missing parts so it's not a problem.

I'm sure you love your Graduate deema and if it's in good condition it will last many lifetimes with the odd change of bearings; like the Wadkin the Graduate is heavy cast iron and for general use won't even need bolting to the floor it being very steady indeed; I'm 6' tall so used raising blocks to make it 3" taller to suit me. I wanted a Graduate for many years often drooling over a brand new Graduate at John Boddy's but at around £3,300 I could dream on. I wouldn't turn my nose up though at anything with the Wadkin name on it.



Actually a good question Garno and if you don't ask you'll never know so ask away I'm always happy to help if possible. As I've explained both my Graduate and Lorch lathes are powered through one VFD; I've never seen two lathes connected like this but I like to experiment; working at Brook Motors here in Huddersfield for 24 years before retiring I was always on the lookout for motors and workmates too kept me updated; the research department often tested brand new motors putting them through load test etc. then the motor still in excellent condition would be scrapped of no further use; one day a workmate told me two such motors were awaiting the scrap wagon so I made it my business to visit the scrap area and retrieve both these are the two motors I now have on my lathes; the motors are inverter rated 3 phase 1.5hp 3 phase; all I had to do was ask for permission to bring such motors home and it was always granted on the understanding I promised never to sell any of the motors; I've still got a good selection of these motors and I also used to be allowed to raid the shaft department bringing home lots of both mild and stainless bar ends that motor shafts were made from.

With both motors being identical it occurred to me that with a bit of experimenting I might be able to run both motors through the one VFD so I set about sorting out the wiring and switching; I'm not a sparky so took lots of care not to electrocute myself; I have plenty of electrical test equipment having restored vintage valve radios for ten years so I knew the dangers of mains electricity. I encountered many problems and in the end after hours of frustration I found the main problem wasn't my circuits or switching after all it was "cross talk" I had connected remote controls to both lathes arranged allowing one lathe at a time to be used by selective switching; the low voltage signal cables were picking up cross talk because they were too near the power cables; I tried CAT 5 cables but after lots of more hassle and frustration in the end re-routed and used CAT 6 cables which to date have cured the problem.

Please don't ask for circuit diagrams because as I say I'm not a sparky and I don't want to electrocute anyone; it's so long ago too that I've forgotten a lot of the details but running two identical motors from a single VFD one at a time definitely can be done.

View attachment 101767

Wiring to the VFD.

View attachment 101768

The switch that switches signals between the lathes. Middle position is stop but then up or down selects which lathe needs to be controlled.

View attachment 101769

Here's the Lorch remote giving vairable speed with forward/reverse and start/stop.

View attachment 101770

Here's the power rotary switch allowing power to be switched between lathes.

View attachment 101771

The VFD in its dust proof enclosure is so quiet I added the power on warning lamp then I don't leave the VFD switched on in error.

View attachment 101772

Here can be seen lathe selection switches the big switch for power the small switch for remote controls.

View attachment 101773


Here are the Graduate remote controls. As I say I'm not a sparky but I've picked up a lot of knowledge over a lifetime and no way would I ever encourage anyone to follow my lead because a simple mistake could be the last mistake you'll ever make; mains electricity doesn't take prisoners.

So to answer your question regarding speed changing on the Lorch the drive belt remains on the middle pulley full time and I just turn the remote VFD control to change speed from stop to full speed; it's all so easy once set up but setting up is the really difficult part; I did it the hard way but connecting a single motor to the VFD is easier.

All this work restoring and modifying both lathes with comprehensive full rebuilds and modifications took quite a while but now both are set up they are a delight to own and use.

I often say I'm an old fashioned dinosaur but I was taught the old fashioned way and with deep respect for survival and safety whilst using my head and hands to make or repair anything;

Kind regards, Colin.

Lovely machines. I am intrigued by the VFD. I have a similar Huan Yang unit powering my Harrison, my only criticism being that it's quite noisy as the fan runs all the time, whether the machine is working or not. Maybe it's just because it's a bigger capacity. I have a second small Viekong VFD running the coolant pump, but on that the fan only cuts in when you are actually drawing power through it.

 

[Fergie 307]

*hehe*
"I'm just taking him for a spin Garda, he loves it really"

Cute

 

[Democritus]

My word, Colin, i’m mightily impressed with your set up, and particularly with the complex wiring system you have installed. I hardly trust myself to wire a plug.

 

[KingAether]

@MarkDennehy That is wonderful and i might have to steal it if you dont mind! turtle gifts have become a bit of a "in-joke" with my partner and I
@deema do you take a VFD apart and use the innerds or buy them un-enclosed cheaper somewhere ? I will be looking to do this asap once i upgrade my lathe in the near future

 

[johnnyb]

a weekend of debauchery and tools.....a rare treat! tabwell tools shut a long time ago as did uppertown tools which was an even better feast selling really quite high end stuff for it day.

 

[flh801978]

Sadly long gone...tabwell tools

 

[leisurefix]

I started out at 17 buying a very old floor standing lathe that had step down gearing for metal turning, that was originally belt driven, but had been converted to electric motor. At that time the only training was from books and trial and error, and I had to unlearn some really bad things taught at school. Second lathe was a Myford ML8, handed down to me by my Dad (slight aside, he was Nick Agar's first pupil). I kept running into limitations and modified these lathes, although large chunks of wood on a fixed 350rpm was scary. Next was a 54" bed Union Graduate that I still have, modified to 10" swing onboard with elevated tailstock (both standard and lever action) and VFD. Due to living and working away from home I picked up a Viceroy bowl lathe to use at my dogs, nice machine, similar but not quite as capable as the Union Graduate. They did me well for a couple decades, until lack of power when coring became too annoying, so when searching for a larger motor and more powerful VFD I accidentally found what I needed attached to a VB36. Impressive machine, but even this within a couple of years has seen some modifications - local engineers have machined a self designed multi purpose tool rest for coring, deep hollowing, and very large bowl rests (something for another post one day). I remember reading about the VB36 in Woodturning magazine at college, never imagined I would end up with one. Be warned, the inevitable end point of a massive lathe lies ahead.

 

[Fergie 307]

@MarkDennehy That is wonderful and i might have to steal it if you dont mind! turtle gifts have become a bit of a "in-joke" with my partner and I
@deema do you take a VFD apart and use the innerds or buy them un-enclosed cheaper somewhere ? I will be looking to do this asap once i upgrade my lathe in the near future

The Huan Yang vfd are all over e bay. I paid £130 for one to handle up to 4hp. Lots of features and easy to set up. Some people have a go at anything Chinese but I have two of these, and have installed others for friends. Never had any trouble. The fan on them is a bit noisy, but not enough to hear it over the machine. One of my mates found the fan noise irritating so he simply changed it out for a computer fan, they are a standard size and it cost him about a tenner. Much quieter with the same rate of flow. My advice would be always over specify it. So mine is rated up to 4hp, the motor is 3hp, and running 240v three phase.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Lovely machines. I am intrigued by the VFD. I have a similar Huan Yang unit powering my Harrison, my only criticism being that it's quite noisy as the fan runs all the time, whether the machine is working or not. Maybe it's just because it's a bigger capacity. I have a second small Viekong VFD running the coolant pump, but on that the fan only cuts in when you are actually drawing power through it.

Could you put the VFD inside an enclosure with ventilation if the fan noise is annoying you Fergie; when I first installed the VFD into the workshop I drilled the wall allowing the VFD to be located the other side of the wall where I couldn't hear it at all; when I coupled both lathes to the VFD I brought it into the workshop but installed it in the small wooden cupboard which does reduce the noise a bit; ideally I should make a metal enclosure for fire safety.

My word, Colin, i’m mightily impressed with your set up, and particularly with the complex wiring system you have installed. I hardly trust myself to wire a plug.

Thanks Democritus; I'm hopelessly colour blind so electrical work was closed to me hence I went for mechanical work; I've mentioned in other posts I was taught at the age of 16 by the NCB how to connect 3 phase motors to a test panel; I had completed my mechanical training course in record time so being nosy I then joined the electrical training course in the same training center; over the years though I've gained quite a bit of workshop electrical knowledge and can connect 3 phase motors to our mains single phase supply with just a pair of capacitors; I converted my former Startrite universal woodworker it having three identical 3hp 3 phase motors allowing it to be run from our 240V single phase supply but only used two capacitors due to the switching between functions. I've got quite a bit of electrical test gear for my own safety.

I wound a giant 75KG transformer and this supplied my 415V 3 phase for about ten years until I downsized my machines.

My 3 phase transformer ready for work.

My 3 phase transformer under power on test. It weighs around 75KG.

The other extreme; winding a vintage radio transformer using one of the coil winders I used to own.

I too bought my Huan Yang VFD overrated Fergie; my motors are 1.5hp but my VFD is rated at 3hp; it's just a case of setting the VFD parameters. When I say just a case of setting parameters this isn't easy for a novice because the small booklet takes a lot of wading through and understanding. Safety is paramount; mains electricity doesn't take prisoners and will kill given the least chance and also these VFD's can pack a surprise in that under overload conditions they don't cut out but increase the power by 50%? it's many years since I read the instructions but as you rightly say Fergie these Huan Yang VFD's are excellent and have been around for years so are well tried and tested; I've thought about buying another of these VFD's just for bench work to run motors I have in stock.

Anyone interested in installing 3 phase at any voltage and any amps please have a look at "unique3phase"



I bought the three DVD set from Doug years ago after watching the video shown above and at that time I think I was the only person in the UK to actually have succeeded installing the 3 phase transformer method in fact Doug asked for my permission to let two UK guys get in touch with me for information because I got mine running from our UK 240V supply. I won't go into detail because I used to post about this only for the "Experts" to post untoward remarks without even trying the method which definitely does work. Doug has kindly credited me with my idea of winding the transformers using the "shuttle" method I dreamt up; Doug used to have his son run a hundred yards with the end of the wire; I work on my own so came up with the shuttle which worked like a dream.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[clogs]

wood lathes, started at school but my first lathe was a Poolewood with mechanical vari speed.....I used it mostley over the end for big'ish bowls....still have and it will get used again when the new w/shop is built......
Found a nice Wadkin RS at a good price with a VFD....had it shipped here, bit of a lump....
My lathe gets most use in making casting patterns, I work on a lot of pre 1920 vehicles and need to get spare parts cast.....

Hand quite a few metal lathes but settled with an as new Myford S7...still had wax on the bedways
and a Colchester Student 6".....a one owner, family machine...bought it cheap as the wiring and contacters were burnt out.....
and funny for me it came out of a small eng works in Colchester.....still tickles my bones.....hahaha....

I took my wife to the Ally Pally one year (prob 20 odd years ago)....she actually loved once there...
anyway looked at the VB36..it was £4000 grand then.....she said if u want one go ahead.....
wish I did now.....they were Brit made then.....
not sure but think they are made in Germany by Hegner.......

collecting bit's o wood for the turning blanks already....hahaha...

happy turning to all.....

 

[wallace]

my first lathe came from B&Q, I soon got sick of it walking around the workshop. Then I found an old union jubilee which was better, then I got a1O" RS which I've had for maybe 8 years. I picked up Wadkin RU last year which I've lusted after for years. It cost less than the smallest trade machine axminster do. It does need rebuilding though.