Lathe Light

[sploo]

Unfortunately I think Ikea changed the model, but I have a few of the little LED lamps with the "bendy" neck. The base (separate in the packaging) attaches to the bottom of the neck via two screws, so it's easy to turn a little wood block (with a round neodymium magnet on the bottom) to use as a new base. It'll then go anywhere you want (as long as it's metal).

I suspect one of these NÄVLINGE black, LED clamp spotlight - IKEA could still be modified though.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

I use there mag base sewing machine lights. Cheap as chips and seem really reliable so I have a couple of the lathe, one on bandsaw and another on drill press.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203040878825

Thanks Simon; I've just bought two of these the 30 light EU types and I'll sit back whilst they head my way from China. I might end up paying customs but it's not a problem. I have 2' square LED panels over my machines but these simply aren't good enough on their own.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Thanks both. It's more likely to be the small ones (on goosenecks (flexis)) that strobe.

The big mains panels probably don't strobe as they don't use high frequency switching to drive the LEDs. I've only fitted one (2'x4' on a 60Hz mains supply), and it showed no sign of strobing. My battery powered bicycle headlight, on the other hand...

 

[Democritus]

I have two of the Charnwood lamps, one on my bandsaw, and one on the headstock of my lathe. Most of the time I don’t need them as I have good strip lighting over both machines. When I do need them, I’ve found them to be more than adequate , the added bonus being that they can be moved easily.
I have never noticed any strobe effect.
Retired; How do you keep your workshop so clean and tidy?

 

[RickG]

I'm a Lighting Design Engineer by profession. LED lighting is powered by DC voltage not AC. So, if the LEDs are supplied with a good, smooth DC voltage there will be no strobe effect.

What has caused strobe effect in LED lighting is makers supplying lights with cheap AC-DC inverters, creating very crude DC voltage.
In short, you take a gamble when you buy cheap LED Lights. Most LED lighting bought from retail outlets and electrical wholesaler and LED onlin sellers are cheap fittings and are a gamble. You might strike lucky. But most will give a short life, poor colour after a time and the output will drop off faster than if you buy better fittings.

The better solution would be to go to wholesaler and ask for what you want by name. They can order it in.

Good makers are Thorlux, Apollo Lighting or Zumtobel. Dextra aren't bad sometimes. All these make good fittings for general lighting.

Accent lighting is poorly supplied.
The best by far is the Glow fitting. At least they give a good output in Lumens: the unit for light output.
Giving data in watts is like stating the power of a car by the MPG figure! Number of LEDs means nothing without knowing what lumens each puts out

 

[Eric The Viking]

I'm a Lighting Design Engineer by profession. LED lighting is powered by DC voltage not AC. So, if the LEDs are supplied with a good, smooth DC voltage there will be no strobe effect.

What has caused strobe effect in LED lighting is makers supplying lights with cheap AC-DC inverters, creating very crude DC voltage.

You apparently don't understand what you are saying.

Strobing is caused by pulsed light combined with movement, usually repetitious (most commonly rotational, but not always).

It's actually irrelevant how the light is fed. What matters is whether the light has a continuous output (= no strobing), or if it is caused to pulse in some way.

Some (most) fluorescent lights can cause strobing as they pulse at 100Hz (in the UK, 120Hz in America), but some have long-persistence phosphors and don't strobe (much). You have probably heard about high-frequency ballasts: these are used for operational (and manufacturing) efficiency in the main, but also for reducing strobing.

LEDs are OFTEN driven by pulsed DC power supplies. This is done primarily to save energy* - if the pulses are frequent enough, the human eye doesn't ordinarily detect them and the brain treats the light as continuous. It is common in battery and other low power appliances.

It is rare, but not unknown, for them to be driven by AC (because they are light-emitting diodes!), but almost never in circumstances where they are used for illumination**.

An inverter as such does NOT produce DC. Ever. By definition. Switched mode power supplies, including ones that convert DC voltages, do contain inverters, but they are an internal part of the circuit. The output is not considered to be inverted in the sense of an "inverter" (which produces AC from DC, for example 240V mains from a 12V battery).

E.

PS: regarding lighting effectiveness, what actually matters is the incident light (in lux) falling on the work area, not the output of the luminaire (in lumens), which is affected hugely by the design of the emitter and any reflectors, etc. The power in watts is useful for calculating running costs, but only if you also know the power factor.

*It is also done to alter the perceived brightness, by changing the mark-space ratio. Otherwise it is hard to do this in a consistent way simply by altering the applied voltage (as you might with an incandescent lamp), simply because the emission with voltage curve is very non-linear. So there are several reasons why an LED light might actually NOT have a smooth DC supply feeding it.

**this used to be common if they were used as mains indicators - simply using a high-value series resistor and accepting that the indicator was only on for most of one half-cycle.

 

[RickG]

@Eric The Viking yes strobing is the flashing of the light, the danger being that flashing at certain frequencies can cause a rotating machine to appear as if it's not moving.

Output from a fitting is measured in Lumens.
Illumination òf a given area is, in Europe, measured in Lux. As you correctly say, effective lighting design is the correct fitting selection and location of fittings to provide effective illumination. In a workshop this will include good uniformity.

Power Factor in quality LED lighting is generally better than 0.95. Power Factor is seldom of significance in energy calculations in lighting where LED is used.

The efficacy of lighting is the critical issue when evaluating a Lighting fitting. This is expressed in Lumens per Watt.

The efficacy of an installation is expressed as Watts/100 Lux/Meter Square. Yet as most here won't be able to know what light level they have in Lux, this is all academic.
So it's best they just look for light fittings with a good Lumens/Watt. Good fittings today will give about 120 Lumens/Watt.

It wasn't my intention, when writing my post, when in bed this morning, to write a full comprehensive guide on lighting design. I also didn't expect to have to cross swords with anyone here.

Maybe you'd like to explain why cheap LED fittings do flash, while Philips Fortimo boards and Xitanum drivers, or the Tridonc or Cree circuits which I use in fittings we design and manufacture, don't?

Moving on, what folk may like to gain from all this is :

If you have fairly new fluorescent lighting (less than 10 years), you will probably gain more benefit by fitting new lamps, than rushing out and buying LED. LED is more energy efficient, but for most people it's not always best to replace. Especially if you're only working in there 10hrs a week. What matters is how long it will take for the energy savings to outweigh the installation cost.

All light sources lose output over time. So, if your old fluorescent lamps are dark at the ends, replace those at >£5 a time, rather than £50 for a half descent LED fitting.

Also, to get the most from any lighting system, where possible, paint your walls and ceiling white. This will add significantly to the light levels: which is what matters.

P.S.
Why did I ever bother trying to help people? In future I'll just shut up.

 

[TFrench]

I have an old-school articulating machine lamp on the wall behind my lathe. It's long enough to light hollowing work or spindle work.

 

[gregmcateer]

Rick G
Definitely don't just shut up. I for one appreciate everyone who posts advice, especially on subjects about which I know naff all!
Greg

 

[Retired]

Hi,

I have two of the Charnwood lamps, one on my bandsaw, and one on the headstock of my lathe. Most of the time I don’t need them as I have good strip lighting over both machines. When I do need them, I’ve found them to be more than adequate , the added bonus being that they can be moved easily.
I have never noticed any strobe effect.
Retired; How do you keep your workshop so clean and tidy?

Thanks for asking; as an apprentice back in 1963 working down a deep coal mine I used to get beaten up if I was untidy and it's stuck with me; a place for everything and everything in its place. I've been in workshops where a place for everything and everything all over the place ruled; I can't do decent work if my working area is untidy. I used to visit a workshop where the owner was a lot shorter than me in height; he had lots of items hanging from the roof like bats; he was fine but for me it was a nightmare having to bend over to avoid obstacles from above whilst trying to place my feet amongst the stuff on the floor. We're all different though I was taught to be tidy and tidy I remain. My hand brush and dustpan see lots of use and I have a pedal bin lined with a plastic bag. For larger amounts of waste I use a sweeping brush and bin bags; I tidy as work proceeds.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Lonsdale73]

a place for everything and everything all over the place ruled;

You've been to my shop, then?

I have three vacs, two dustpans, one hand brush, one sweeping brush, numerous and various sized paint brushs for those hard to reach places yet I still can't keep on top of the dust. And that was before I got a lathe!

 

[RickG]

I started well at keeping everything swept and clean, even with a lathe. The problem I have started when wood storage grew into the working area and you simply can't sweep the chips and dust from between the logs.
And I MUST get the extraction gear connected and installed properly.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

I started well at keeping everything swept and clean, even with a lathe. The problem I have started when wood storage grew into the working area and you simply can't sweep the chips and dust from between the logs.
And I MUST get the extraction gear connected and installed properly.

I have similar problems but get around it by putting my dust mask on and using the compressor air line; I start at the wall furthest from the doors and blow the dust cloud onto our driveway where I can easily sweep up the debris; I do this a number of times; having done this it's then a shame to cause more dust.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Lonsdale73]

Took delivery of the Glomaster earlier, now charging it up.

 

[Democritus]

Retired Colin
I am mightily impressed by your efforts to keep your workshop clean.
I only wish I could do the same. I always put my tools away, and I use my Henry regularly, together with brush and dust pan. Nevertheless, try as I might, the place is never clear completely of turnings and saw dust.
Must try harder!
Best wishes
D.

 

[Democritus]

Rick G
Don’t give up offering advice. It’s what this forum is for. We can all learn from each other’s knowledge and experience.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Just an update. The new LED sewing machine lights arrived by slow boat from China but I'm happy to have them. I've not yet tried using the one for the lathe but what a tremendous difference on the bandsaw to see what I'm cutting; Well worth the money and the wait; I'll buy two more.

Kind regards, Colin.

lights as arrived needing plugs changing but not a big problem.

The big magnet; strong grip on bare metal but decreases with paint thickness on machines.

Here's one on my bandsaw attached to the steel guard; it's wonderful to see what I'm doing.

Not wanting lots of 13A plugs I cut off the useless supplied plug; bared the wire ends and soldered them then added them to the bandsaw plug; once the insulation is removed the wire is very fine indeed so I soldered then folded over to make a secure connection.

Here for the Graduate I've installed a bare length of strip steel to the tool rack; I can move the light as required but have yet to try it out; one concern is having the light switch so exposed to dust and chips so I'll leave the switch "ON" and seal it with self amalgamating tape; I can use the switch at the socket for switching on/off. I fitted a plug to this fused at 5A.

Another picture of the steel strip; the magnet really does grab this. I'll buy two more because I've always struggled with bench grinding twist drills; adding one of these will be perfect.

 

[Lons]

I have the exact same light Retired but mine came with a 3 pin adaptor as well as the fitted 2 pin plug, I've had it a while and originally fitted to the bandsaw but then replaced it with one of the 10 watt floodlights and used this one on my fly tying bench.

 

[mindthatwhatouch]

Not wanting lots of 13A plugs I cut off the useless supplied plug; bared the wire ends and soldered them then added them to the bandsaw plug; once the insulation is removed the wire is very fine indeed so I soldered then folded over to make a secure connection.

Doh, you may want to rethink that..... What is the fuse protecting?

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Doh, you may want to rethink that..... What is the fuse protecting?

Thanks for asking. Standard 13A plug fused at 13A for the bandsaw and also the new light; ideally I'd fuse the new light at 3A but the saw is correctly earthed and and the consumer unit is pretty new being split load with a pair of RCD's. If the power to the bandsaw is switched on then the lamp lights which not only illuminates the working area of the saw but is a good reminder to ensure the saw is never left switched on at the socket after each session in the workshop; not perfect but how many plug an inspection lamp into a trailing extension lead. I never ever leave machines or power tools switched on if I'm not in the workshop. I could always fit an inline 3A fuse?

Kind regards, Colin.