Large T&G moulder cutters

[bearwood42]

Hi, new to the forum!

And fairly new to wood working so please bear with me!

I’m hoping to make up some large tongue and groove boards for agricultural use, it’s called dungwalling and is hideously expensive to buy.
I’ve managed to lay my hands on an old wadkin spindle moulder with a power feed, which I now need to learn to use. I also need to source the correct 30mm cutter block and cutters for the profile.

The profile is shown in my very high quality diagram below. Is this something that can be bought off the shelf? If so, which block to buy, where to buy etc? Any help appreciated!

The plan is to mill the boards, run them through the planer/thicknesser and then through the moulder. Thanks

 

[Doug71]

I guess it depends how much you need and how many times you are prepared to run it through the spindle moulder.

I would start by having a word with Whitehill to see what they have/recommend.

https://www.whitehill-tools.com/

 

[Jacob]

The old whitehill blocks are still cheap Wood working C7291 WHITEHILL Block | eBay and making your own cutters is no big deal of you want to go down that route.
One cutter for the tongue with a blank for counter balance.
Groove easiest with a wobble saw on the spindle - expensive but a very good tool.
Maybe the bevel as another operation.
Definitely need a heavy duty power feed for those sizes if similar sorts of length is involved, and for safety.

 

[guineafowl21]

Try Profile Design Tooling - this chap has done some very good knives for me, and is happy to discuss requirements and generally take the job on properly. He should be able to do a tongue/groove set where you mill all the grooves, then change knives and run the corresponding tongues without changing settings, as long as you keep the same face down on the bed.

Are you sure the spindle is 30mm, and not 31.75mm (1 1/4”)? Also, it might be worth getting some initial help with using the spindle moulder.

 

[deema]

Whitehill make great cutters, but oooooh they are expensive. Try these guys, far cheaper and that’s for full custom made cutter and limiters. The last lot I bought I had in my 48 hours after ordering. Excellent quality.

https://www.profiledesigntooling.com/profile-moulder-cutters.html

 

[deema]

Sorry Guineaflow, I was typing and didn’t see you listed about the same chap.

 

[bearwood42]

Thanks for all replies.

Try Profile Design Tooling - this chap has done some very good knives for me, and is happy to discuss requirements and generally take the job on properly. He should be able to do a tongue/groove set where you mill all the grooves, then change knives and run the corresponding tongues without changing settings, as long as you keep the same face down on the bed.

Are you sure the spindle is 30mm, and not 31.75mm (1 1/4”)? Also, it might be worth getting some initial help with using the spindle moulder.

It could well be, I’ll take a more accurate measurement. It’s a wadkin EPA moulder, it says 1948 on the plate.

It’s really just to dip my toe in the market and see if there is much demand for the boards. We use a lot on the farm and I’ve got a good local source of timber which is currently all being chipped for biomass, which seems a waste to me! Lots of nice larch, douglas and cedar being burned.

I’m assuming for large quantities a 4 headed machine would be the way to do it? I’ve seen Logosol make a machine that looks handy, very pricey though!

 

[Cabinetman]

Buy a grooving cutter, you will need one for your spindle moulder for most jobs that you undertake, they are adjustable from about 8 mm up to 18? So you will be able to cut a groove first and then a couple more passes on the other piece to create two rebates to fit – I wouldn’t try and get the joint too tight though.
In this situation it probably isn’t important but normally floorboards are made so that the topmost rebate isn’t quite so deep so that it closes first. Ian

 

[Jacob]

Buy a grooving cutter, you will need one for your spindle moulder for most jobs that you undertake, they are adjustable from about 8 mm up to 18? So you will be able to cut a groove first and then a couple more passes on the other piece to create two rebates to fit – I wouldn’t try and get the joint too tight though.
In this situation it probably isn’t important but normally floorboards are made so that the topmost rebate isn’t quite so deep so that it closes first. Ian

If doing a lot of work two stacked grooving cutters for the rebates and a wobble saw for the slot? Could be very fast and accurate.

 

[Jameshow]

Happ

Thanks for all replies.



It could well be, I’ll take a more accurate measurement. It’s a wadkin EPA moulder, it says 1948 on the plate.

It’s really just to dip my toe in the market and see if there is much demand for the boards. We use a lot on the farm and I’ve got a good local source of timber which is currently all being chipped for biomass, which seems a waste to me! Lots of nice larch, douglas and cedar being burned.

I’m assuming for large quantities a 4 headed machine would be the way to do it? I’ve seen Logosol make a machine that looks handy, very pricey though!

Happy relieve you of timber for brass I'm down in Devon in October!

Cheers James

 

[guineafowl21]

The old whitehill blocks are still cheap Wood working C7291 WHITEHILL Block | eBay and making your own cutters is no big deal of you want to go down that route.
One cutter for the tongue with a blank for counter balance.
Groove easiest with a wobble saw on the spindle - expensive but a very good tool.
Maybe the bevel as another operation.
Definitely need a heavy duty power feed for those sizes if similar sorts of length is involved, and for safety.

Jacob (and OP), a cautionary note from a previous member of this forum who is experienced with the old Whitehill blocks:

“Jacob’s correct about Whitehill cutters being versatile and simple to use when they’re in immaculate condition, but the particular block he has linked to on eBay is heavily damaged and would be too dangerous to run, you can see a cutter has been ejected from one of the jaws in its previous life leaving it very marred which makes the block very dangerous to use with potentially lethal consequences as it will not be clamping or supporting the cutter properly.”

If you look at the top left of the picture, the cutter opening has splayed slightly.

A new modern limiter block, say 125mmx55mm, might be a better choice, especially for a beginner.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob (and OP), a cautionary note from a previous member of this forum who is experienced with the old Whitehill blocks:

“Jacob’s correct about Whitehill cutters being versatile and simple to use when they’re in immaculate condition, but the particular block he has linked to on eBay is heavily damaged and would be too dangerous to run, you can see a cutter has been ejected from one of the jaws in its previous life leaving it very marred which makes the block very dangerous to use with potentially lethal consequences as it will not be clamping or supporting the cutter properly.”

If you look at the top left of the picture, the cutter opening has splayed slightly.

A new modern limiter block, say 125mmx55mm, might be a better choice, especially for a beginner.

I just posted that one as an indicator of prices. Yes you could be right it might be a dud. Nevertheless hugely safer than the earlier square blocks which nobody should touch with a barge pole. A good power feed removes a lot of the danger, and as ever, use two push sticks.

 

[bearwood42]

I’m quite wary of woodworking tools , working on a farm gives you a healthy respect of anything that spins fast! So I think a new block might be a better option.

I’m beginning to realise cutters and blocks are an expensive minefield! Much to learn

 

[johnnyb]

I've got a multi piece omas block that would do that t and g one pass tongue one pass groove.

 

[johnnyb]

sorry not that big max 7.8 tongue and 22mm thickness.

 

[clogs]

isn't some of the newer bigger block serrated with cutters to match.....
just asking....

I use a Euro safety block...

 

[sawdust1]

Hi Bearwood, you plan to mill, thickness and profile your own boards thats a lot of work.
I see you are in Devon have you priced up from Blamphayne sawmills Honiton they stock it.
If you have to buy the machinery, tooling and the sawlogs i can't see you doing it cheaper.

 

[doctor Bob]

I just posted that one as an indicator of prices. Yes you could be right it might be a dud. Nevertheless hugely safer than the earlier square blocks which nobody should touch with a barge pole. A good power feed removes a lot of the danger, and as ever, use two push sticks.

What the heck are you on about ….. this seems nonsense. Bit like saying jumping under a bus is not as dangerous as jumping under a train and if you wear a helmet it’s safer, also wear gloves.

 

[Jacob]

What the heck are you on about ….. this seems nonsense. Bit like saying jumping under a bus is not as dangerous as jumping under a train and if you wear a helmet it’s safer, also wear gloves.

Not really.
The old Whitehill cutters were the safety cutter of their day up to about 1990 (?) and very much safer than the earlier square block which were doomed to regular failure. Power feed also acts as guarding and means less close contact with cutters (obviously). Gloves no good but push sticks keep your hands well out of the way of cutters and reduce risk enormously, especially at the moment you feed stuff in or push it through at the end of the pass.

 

[doctor Bob]

So what is it power feed or sticks