LA fires

[Spectric]

Jacob has a crystal ball.

Once you have rolled all other potential synario's around in the grey mater and added a dose of logic and reasoning then you have to conclude that if nothing changes then things can only get worse and not just for California.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Isn't it cute.

Some contributors have done 15mins of Google.
Maybe 30 mins, at a stretch.
And then framing their argument to disagree with people who have literally dedicated their entire academic and working lives in researching a specific topic.

(I deliberately chose the word "people" instead of the word "experts" for a reason. Because we've had enough of experts. Apparently.)

This isn't a dig at individuals. It's an observation that things have gotten a bit topsy turvy. Post truth. Freedom of Speech. "Balance". Something just isn't right here.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Fifty odd years ago I got a job as an aircraft mechanic with a fire bombing company in British Columbia and every summer we went out to bases all over the province. The air tankers went out to drop fire retardant on the fire to stop them when they were first spotted. The ground crews followed and with helicopters kept the fires contained and put out. There were "campaign" fires occasionally that got big but they would eventually be contained. All those years of stopping fires has built up enormous amounts of dry debris of dead branches and plants on the forest floor. Now with the longer, hotter, and dryer conditions the fire season is longer and they rapidly get out of control. With the build up of fuels on the forest floors everywhere more and more fires are encompassing towns and cities which have expanded outwards from when I was a pup. I suspect that is part of the reason LA is in such a state. There are more than 4 times as many people on the earth from when I was born until now. Shouldn't take a genius to figure out we are responsible. It ain't gonna get better until it gets a lot worse.

Pete

The operative part of this story is the "longer and hotter and dryer" part. Not that we stored up dry fodder.

 

[RobinBHM]

It's a north american thing. Houses here get built in literal days as opposed months. Timber is also cheaper and more readily available than alternatives. Further to that, in colder areas like where I am in Saskatchewan, timber framed houses are often better insulated or have better r value than brick or block homes.

Looking at the picture, I do think the roof could be pretty critical here. Majority of roofs are asphalt tile and would be pretty susceptible to catching on fire from falling embers.

I am always amazed when I see YouTube videos of American housebuilding, especially the asphalt / felt shingle tiles they use for roofs. ….here in the U.K. we only use those for sheds or summer houses.

And it’s mostly timber frame construction….seems not so great in a country with termites

 

[RobinBHM]

These fires are because of barbecues not climate change.

It just goes to show burgers are bad for you

 

[TRITON]

What i dont understand is why(in this vid) it shows a lot of burned down houses, but not all, and its inter spaced by unburnt vegetation and trees.

Even on the coast, you have houses behind unburned, and houses beside unburned, and even greenery. So why are some going up and others arent.
Also in the heli shots it shows the same patterns.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...es-palisades-la-fires-helicopter/77604040007/

 

[Phil Pascoe]

 

[danst96]

I am always amazed when I see YouTube videos of American housebuilding, especially the asphalt / felt shingle tiles they use for roofs. ….here in the U.K. we only use those for sheds or summer houses.

And it’s mostly timber frame construction….seems not so great in a country with termites

Having lived here for 3 years, I struggle to have a definite opinion either way on the building methods.

The more traditional UK houses definitely have a longer lifespan and are more sturdy but then houses here seem to have less damp or mould issues in the same periods. The speed of building is also significant. When I first moved I was very shocked at the building method and quite against it but now after being here a few years and looking at doing an extension, apart from the fact I'm limited in what I can do, it's hard to make an argument for a block or brick building, at least where I live. Roofing Is a different story, I still favour UK slate/concrete tile. Don't have the skill set here and cost Is a massive factor.

 

[Jacob]

It's true of course that a wooden building will burn easier, or a forest with accumulated wood waste , etc etc
But then the whole issue with climate change is that it will hit the most vulnerable first; burns wood sooner than concrete, heat makes already hot regions hotter, or floods coastal areas and narrow valleys first, renders marginal land useless sooner.. and so on.
The possibility of mitigating all these events globally, is zero.
And anyway, in case anybody has not noticed, it is already too late in LA, and similarly in other parts of the globe.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Three Little Piggies


The piggie who toiled most, and was made fun of for it, was the one who's house didn't blow down.

 

[Jacob]

Three Little Piggies


The piggie who toiled most, and was made fun of for it, was the one who's house didn't blow down.

It might be interesting to see how the little piggies with expensive survivalist bunkers fared in the LA area, if any of them took cover.

 

[Jacob]

Strewth there are some raving nutters about!
In general the blame for all the climate change death and destruction lies with the sceptics, deniers, fossil fuel advocates, who have successfully deferred action from years back. This includes Victor David Hanson.
Amazing that they are still vacantly burbling out the same rubbish.

 

[Jacob]

What i dont understand is why(in this vid) it shows a lot of burned down houses, but not all, and its inter spaced by unburnt vegetation and trees.

Even on the coast, you have houses behind unburned, and houses beside unburned, and even greenery. So why are some going up and others arent.
Also in the heli shots it shows the same patterns.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...es-palisades-la-fires-helicopter/77604040007/

Surely just chance and wind direction etc. The ones still standing obviously untouched or you would see signs, even if largely concrete construction - still have masses of flammable material around.

https://www.independent.co.uk/clima...temperature-2024-climate-crisis-b2677150.html

 

[Majimoto]

The people of California who are affected by the frequency and severity of these fires don't need to be told for the umpteenth time why they are happening. They need actual measures in place to control the situation and mitigate the effects .If one finds oneself in the midst of something like this , then the worst is already happening - whatever the cause.

Given that California is the wealthiest State in the whole of the U.S.A. then funds are going to have to be channeled into better managing the land outside the major cities - all those wild, forested areas and, grassy scrubland. The minimum one should expect is that there are, at least, large enough fire-breaks around the major conurbations to protect them.

Many years ago it was " discovered" that the native management of forests with small managed scrub fires was an extremely effective way of limiting the outbreak of these huge fires.
But ,was anything done about following this up.
Not on your perishing life.
Like, what would these ignorant savages know about anything?

 

[Terrytpot]

Seems to me after seeing how urban so many of the devastated areas are that fire breaks don’t really have any relevance here. These fires are wind driven so they’ll easily bypass cleared areas by sending embers onto the next susceptible area and if it has more flammable buildings there it’ll just keep jumping like it has. If they want to still populate areas at risk to severely unfriendly climate events they need to address their building codes to reflect the inherent risks to properties in those areas , pretty much like is common in earthquake zones.. hmm, not looking good for affordable housing is it and as Southern California is chocker with folks well below the median in terms of income I see this issue rolling on for quite a while with no significant change other than the scale of the calamity as the years go by.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Many years ago it was " discovered" that the native management of forests with small managed scrub fires was an extremely effective way of limiting the outbreak of these huge fires.
But ,was anything done about following this up.
Not on your perishing life.
Like, what would these ignorant savages know about anything?

In the last 50 years global population has doubled from 4bn to 8bn. Our actions are likely to be making fires potentially worse.

Any which do occur are rapidly extinguished (if possible) to limit the threat to humans and structures. This allows the build up of increasing amounts of potentially flammable debris.

Environmental concerns which create and preserve habitats for wildlife - dead stumps, wood piles etc - probably add to the problem.

The outcome - if fires are not quickly brought under control they are likely to spread rapidly fuelled by excess debris - not helped by high winds and low rainfall.

Historically fires would often have been allowed to burn themselves out - firefighting would have been limited by difficulty in accessing remote sites (no helicopters, roads, etc), and less powerful or portable equipment (pumps, tankers, air support etc).

Fires started more frequently, but with less debris to fuel them would be less intense, and often pass through sufficiently quickly the woodland would be able to regenerate.

 

[Titan_uk]

wow..just...WOW!

Put a log on a fire at 20% moisture and compare it to 7%. Now take a hot glowing ember and blow it a mile through patches of damp air and hot dry air...do it again but through all very dry air, what do you think happens?

I for one am absolutely livid at all the data that has been so obviously manipulated by these so called scientists just to prove their global warming theories. Despite having lucky guesses from years ago, that have been proven right time and time again it doesn't mean global warming is in any way affecting wildfires..Sheesh!

https://www.noaa.gov/noaa-wildfire/wildfire-climate-connection

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-...rd-breaking-watershed-year-for-global-climate

 

[Jacob]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...mps-denial-and-division-fuel-climate-inaction

"Climate denialism ought to be confronted with bold policies; business must be held accountable for its role in this crisis; and voters need to see through the rightwing populist parties who prioritise profit over the planet. The next catastrophe isn’t a distant threat, it’s already in motion. Only immediate and determined action can stop global heating from becoming humanity’s undoing."

 

[Jacob]

.........
Fires started more frequently, but with less debris to fuel them would be less intense, and often pass through sufficiently quickly the woodland would be able to regenerate.

True that if mitigating measures had been put in place then the effects of climate change would be mitigated.
This is known a "naive truism" or "self evident truth" and is of no help whatsoever.
It gives Trump and his followers somebody to blame whilst they continue their denialism over climate change.
Could be a very bad time for the USA to have elected an unpleasant and ignorant moron as president.