Krenov book arrived

[Anonymous]

Well it's come at last "The Fine Art of Cabinet Making" J Krenov. I've had a quick browse and these are first impressions.
Don't much like those opposing grain pattern door fronts - slightly irritating for some reason and in some cases a bit creepy - the one on p22 looks like a flesh wound. A series of Rorschach Tests to drive you mad perhaps.
Very uncomfortable with the reversal of the normal door rail/stile layout i.e. rails vertical just looks clumsy and wrong. Why does he do this; just to be different?
Suddenly realised what the wedge in saw kerf tenon is all about - its for those who make mortices with round ends cos they haven't got the proper kit! OBMs or square chisel morticers that is. OK once in a while for decoration but is fundamentally weak.
Very messy way of making panels; what a bodge, I'm really surprised!
This above all makes me wonder where he learnt his stuff - not in a trad woodwork shop shop for sure, did he make it all up himself?
He reveals all on p58 where he feebly attempts to criticise "the traditional approach" with respect to "esthetics". Is he blind or what?
At this point I realised what his major influence is on woodworkers today - he and his ilk have driven a wedge between traditional and amateur woodwork almost to separate them completely.
But to give him credit - he acknowledges this very thing on the first page "This book... is for amateurs" etc.
Some very dangerous table sawing practices here - would make me nervous and I'm not 100% Scrit compliant!
Not all bad I'm sure - I do intend to read it through inspite of the tendency towards new-age waffle!

cheers
Jacob
PS sorry Byron I just don't have this "respect" thing - I think celebs and personalities should always be poked with a stick at least, if not given a good kicking, to find out what they are made of :lol:

 

[ByronBlack]

I think celebs and personalities should always be poked with a stick at least, if not given a good kicking, to find out what they are made of.

And may that great honour be bestowed upon your great self.

 

[promhandicam]

snip . . Is he blind or what? . . .

I think that technically he is now, although presumably not when he wrote the book.

I don't have the book myself so can't comment on it but perhaps there will be a copy up for grabs in the not too distant future :lol:

Steve

 

[Philly]

I think celebs and personalities should always be poked with a stick at least, if not given a good kicking, to find out what they are made of.

And may that great honour be bestowed upon your great self.

Join the queue, Byron......... :twisted:
Philly :lol:

 

[DomValente]

So, did you not like the book Jacob ?

Dom

 

[Anonymous]

So, did you not like the book Jacob ?

Dom

Just first impressions.
Been looking at the first chapter about using bits and bobs of found wood, cheap softwood etc. I'd go along with all that.
I was really surprised that he didn't know how to make a framed panel - unless that bridle joint and the clumsy slot detail are just for the benefit of novices.
Still reading :shock:

cheers
Jacob

 

[DomValente]

O.K. my turn to make 'friends'.
I do agree with you Jacob that 'gurus' can be over rated,and that some of their methods are dubious to say the least,but,I stick to my original thought that we need them if only to 'incentivise' newcomers to woodworking and to inspire to new designs.

Dom

 

[Anonymous]

O.K. my turn to make 'friends'.
I do agree with you Jacob that 'gurus' can be over rated,and that some of their methods are dubious to say the least,but,I stick to my original thought that we need them if only to 'incentivise' newcomers to woodworking and to inspire to new designs.

Dom

Agree. Perhaps Jim lad is the new Barry Bucknell :lol:
Joking apart, I do agree.

cheers
Jacob

 

[Scrit]

Suddenly realised what the wedge in saw kerf tenon is all about - its for those who make mortices with round ends cos they haven't got the proper kit! OBMs or square chisel morticers that is. OK once in a while for decoration but is fundamentally weak.

But pretty much standard practice in mainland Europe where slot mortisers and round end tenoners have been in use for donkeys ages. We even used to have a firm who made them here - called Rye - at one time (and of course Danckaert had a substantial presence in the UK for many, many years too)

This above all makes me wonder where he learnt his stuff - not in a trad woodwork shop shop for sure, did he make it all up himself?

He is supposed to have been trained in Sweden

Some very dangerous table sawing practices here - would make me nervous and I'm not 100% Scrit compliant!

:roll: :wink: :lol:

I think celebs and personalities should always be poked with a stick at least, if not given a good kicking, to find out what they are made of :lol:

Wow! Something we can agree on! =D>

Scrit

 

[DomValente]

Well there's lovely then, we all agree.......damn it.

Dom

 

[ByronBlack]

Krenov worked in a boat yard building boats if I remember correctly, so I would imagine that would be considered 'Traditional'.

Are OBM's and Square mortisers the only method considered 'proper' in making mortice and tenon joints?

 

[Scrit]

Are OBM's and Square mortisers the only method considered 'proper' in making mortice and tenon joints?

No (and by the way it's "square chisel morticer"). There are also chain mortisers for rectangular mortises:

Which can come in slightly heavier versions:

(A 6 feet high 1-1/4 tonne Wadkin MDF chain and chisel morticer). Chain morticers have much greater capacity and so are favoured by heavy joinery makers such as gate makers and large timber frame structure builders. Also there's the Maka morticer:

which use a single chisel like this:

These are available in a bench top version as well. There's the French Alternax system:

Plus round-end tenoners, such as the now defunct Rye or still extant Ballestrini often used in conjunction with a slot mortiser, especially in chair making.

Scrit

 

[ByronBlack]

Comprehensive Scrit! Although my question was more aimed at Jacobs dubious accusation that Krenov only used the style he did because Jacob thought he might not have the 'proper' kit; in his mind only being an OBM and Square chisel morticer.

 

[Anonymous]

Comprehensive Scrit! Although my question was more aimed at Jacobs dubious accusation that Krenov only used the style he did because Jacob thought he might not have the 'proper' kit; in his mind only being an OBM and Square chisel morticer.

What I meant was that Krenov uses a slot morticer attachment to his table saw and a router.
Have read further - not easy as it is a bit of a long winded chant - it'll either send you to sleep or hypnotise you. He puts things in italics every now and then, it's as though he's whispering in your ear whilst squeezing your hand.
It's the guru style which makes him so influential I feel. I now see where most of the amateur woodwork scenes cliches and obsessions come from - particularly the dismissive attitude to traditional woodwork. In that respect his influence is very negative. It's not as though he has come up with anything very radical as an alternative, infact his own stuff is a bit clumsy and ploddy. I'm amazed that he doesn't know how to make panel doors - did nobody ever show him, did he not read a book or two, did he never look at furniture around him?
Inspite of this there are all sorts of interesting bits and bobs in there. I'll certainly be looking at it again and should another of his books come my way I might read it.
Most fatuous paragraph spotted so far:
"The matter of making joints, dovetails or others, is one of method and exactness-and something more. The "more" is the logic and fantasy of our message"
Yeah right, Jim!

Here's one of my own: "Remember tomorrow is the day after today"

cheers
Jacob
PS I'm a bit critical here so by way of balance I'd say that strongly personal books like this (and e.g. david C's) make much more interesting reading than some of the huge tomes put together by editorial committees, even if one doesn't entirely empathise with the contents.
Long live the opinionated individualist!

 

[ByronBlack]

I'm amazed that he doesn't know how to make panel doors - did nobody ever show him, did he not read a book or two, did he never look at furniture around him?

I'm really surprised in you Jacob. You state matter of factly that he doesn't know how to make a panel door. Does he actually state that he doesn't or are you just guessing that he doesn't based on his different style of panel door.

Who's to say that your method of making a panel door is the only correct one? Is woodworking and it's methods written in stone so that no one can change the method, or evolve the method?

You appear to have a black and white attitude towards furniture making. I.e if it's not done in the 'traditional' (I don't know what that means anyway) way according to your own beliefs, then its wrong or not effective. Surely thats not what you really think is it?

Would you say the same things in regards to furniture making from other cultures that don't have our traditions? I'm thinking of Japanese carpentry here specifically, they seem to have a lot of different ways of working to us, and wondered whether you would consider their work in-tune with your own 'traditional' views.

 

[Corset]

I think this is really quite interesting stuff. As i understand it the krenov guys has been teaching at some very influential school in America for years so he must have been questioned about technique quite alot or maybe that leaves some holes in American education.
For my part i quite like his shapes but i have never read his books or looked at his constructional technique.
When i built my cabinet i struggled with the right way to do things as everything seemed to have five different "correct" methods when i looked depending on resources, time and ability.
I do like the idea there is a bit of soul to the craftsman etc particuarly as its my hobby i guess if you make the same thing all day long it must just be soul less.
It also seems that he has made a lot of people excited about woodwork and i cannot see how any of that is a bad thing even if it does mean he comes across as a bit of a Guru.
For my part people like David C and Rob Cosman actually put me off as they are so technically good i feel i will never achieve that if they had been the first people i had read i would have given up a long time ago. Not that they are not awesome craftsmen its just it feels a little bit too precise for me as a beginner and i would have thrown all my work in the bin in digust.
I quite like Mr Grimsdales opinions as he has been making me think about what is the best methods for me as i buy stuff. I recently bought some wooden moulding planes to try as an alternative to a router and if i can work out how to sharpen them i am going to make some sliding doors.
Sorry that was a bit rambling i was trying to make a point not sure what though
Owen

 

[ByronBlack]

if i can work out how to sharpen them

There is only one answer! The Grimsdale sharpening method!!!

P.S I actually think the exact opposite. David C and Rob C both show the beginner/amateur just how to achieve the kind of accuracy that Edit: Doesn't holds us back (IMVHO). Most other books that i've read are very vaque on how to do something which leads to frustration and ultimately the feeling of hopelessness and the wanting to give up. David and Rob both show proper methods that if followed do give results.

 

[mudman]

Snip
I recently bought some wooden moulding planes to try as an alternative to a router and if i can work out how to sharpen them i am going to make some sliding doors.

Owen

Alf is your friend in all things hand tooly.

 

[Corset]

No i feel the opposite, their environment feels sterile it just doesn't seem like the same world. The information is very good its just it doesn't excite me.
Owen

 

[Jake]

David C and Rob C both show the beginner/amateur just how to achieve the kind of accuracy that holds us back (IMVHO).

It is very important to achieve the kind of accuracy that holds us back?