Kreg Pocket hole jigs

[walt.wales]

hi All,
as new member to UKW just thought i'd say hello and ask a question:
has anyone had experience of the Kreg KJMICRODGB Micro-Pocket Drill Guide, as used for 1/2" x 1" stock?
i'm aware that there is a debate in woodworking circles about the use of pocket hole joinery but for my current needs this method suits perfectly. What i would like to know is if anyone here has experience of this particular jig for joining small stock especially 1/2" ply? [i've read old reviews on the Kreg site and they raise some reservations]
Many thanks & regards,
waltinwales

 

[Mike Jordan]

Hi
There is no controversy in the minds of competent woodworkers regarding the use of pocket hole jigs of any brand. They are largely useless, just a catch penny aimed at the wallets of the inexperienced. They try to make it look as if quality joints can be made with no skill of any kind. Pocket screwing can be done using a gouge, chisel, and drill. All in a matter of minutes. Uses for which the method is really suited are very rare. It would be better to tell the forum members what joint you wish to achieve and allowing them to advise you. There are lots of competent woodworkers on this site at all levels of expertise. The woodworking world has quite a few makers of "wonder tools "that are worthless and only remove cash from the unwary..
Mike.

 

[Cordy]

Walt, welcome to the forum
Not familiar myself with micro kreg
My own Kreg is similar to THIS
Being a novice woodworker I find it very useful indeed

This chair was made using all Kreg p/h joinery except for the coach-bolts

 

[walt.wales]

hi Cordy,
thanks for the reply & welcome.
Thank you too for the photo of the garden chair: i have to say, its a fine looking piece and if youre getting results like this then pocket hole jointing cant be all bad!
As a sculptor i use whatever process/technology it takes to get the desired result. i've cut my fair share of mortice and tenon & dovetails over the years but for something's a quick and simple method is definitely the order of the day. For this current project i'm looking to join 1/2" x 1" ply which will be painted thereafter, so a strong joint is all that is necessary, hence my asking about the Kreg micro jig.
All the best,
waltinwales

 

[Noel]

Hi Walt.
If you think a pocket hole jig will serve your purposes get one. They are a wonderful versatile method of joining timber. Quick, easy to use and relatively inexpensive. One point I would mention is try and get one with the clamp on the "work" side rather than having to reach over the work piece to secure the board. It's just a lot easier. Like this:

 

[novocaine]

Welcome along.

you can insert all of the words about real wood working etc. here.

now for the bit that matters. I use a single hole mini jig occasionally when I need to use pocket holes. It's dirt cheap (think I paid a tenner for it), easy to use and after a few uses becomes incredible quick (I marked the side of the guide and the bit for the different positions and have a little block for the other position). the 3 hole unit looks good but really isn't needed, save your pennies and buy the single one. I use a quick clamp with it too, saves time.

it's a solution to a problem, the all singing all dancing one really isn't needed unless you are doing production runs with it.

 

[AES]

Hi Walt, and welcome.

I'm by no means an experienced wood worker, but wish I had known about the Kreg pocket hole jig before I started a current project (a kid's pedal car made largely out of birch ply).

I now have the Kreg K4 (NOT the mini jig) and while I wouldn't use for everything (not by a long chalk) IMO it definitely DOES have a place in the armoury.

It's quick and easy to use and very well made indeed - should last a life time. If the mini jig is as good, then I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it - like you, I'm not against modern ideas and clever jigs to make life easier.

Normally my experience of this Forum is that people are overwhelmingly helpful here, and apart from talking about sharpening (when things do tend to get a bit heated!), my experience is that it's VERY unusual to get an opinion about anything that is so vehemently dismissive as that expressed by Mike Jordan above.

Though he is quite correct in saying that if you need help to make any specific joint, you'll get help (in spades) if you ask for it here, IMO he is also completely incorrect to dismiss this particular tool as, QUOTE: largely useless, just a catch penny aimed at the wallets of the inexperienced. UNQUOTE.

The above is merely his opinion - and it seems a somewhat biased opinion to boot - I wonder if he's even ever tried one? - and as you've seen from the responses so far (and no doubt more to come) his opinion of the pocket hole jig is very much in the minority.

As I say, I haven't tried the mini jig, but if it's as good as my K4 I'd say go for it mate. Just don't expect it to do EVERY job.

Welcome, and best of luck.

 

[AES]

Hi Walt, and welcome.

I'm by no means an experienced wood worker, but wish I had known about the Kreg pocket hole jig before I started a current project (a kid's pedal car made largely out of birch ply).

I now have the Kreg K4 (NOT the mini jig) and while I wouldn't use for everything (not by a long chalk) IMO it definitely DOES have a place in the armoury.

It's quick and easy to use and very well made indeed - should last a life time. If the mini jig is as good, then I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it - like you, I'm not against modern ideas and clever jigs to make life easier.

Normally my experience of this Forum is that people are overwhelmingly helpful here, and apart from talking about sharpening (when things do tend to get a bit heated!), my experience is that it's VERY unusual to get an opinion about anything that is so vehemently dismissive as that expressed by Mike Jordan above.

Though he is quite correct in saying that if you need help to make any specific joint, you'll get help (in spades) if you ask for it here, IMO he is also completely incorrect to dismiss this particular tool as:

largely useless, just a catch penny aimed at the wallets of the inexperienced

The above is merely his opinion - and it seems a somewhat biased opinion to boot - I wonder if he's even ever tried one? - and as you've seen from the responses so far (and no doubt more to come) his opinion of the pocket hole jig is very much in the minority.

As I say, I haven't tried the mini jig, but if it's as good as my K4 I'd say go for it mate. Just don't expect it to do EVERY job.

Welcome, and best of luck.

 

[porker]

I agree with novocaine above and use the Kreg mini jig a lot and it's all I need. I have a fancier jig but never use it. I know there are woodworkers who dismiss pocket holes but there are plenty who use them and they work for me. I only really use mine on 18mm board and slightly bigger for carcasses and face frames. I have used dowels and biscuit joints too but as long as you clamp the pieces firmly before driving the screws you have a joint that holds itself together without further clamping. I usually glue mine as well although it is questionable whether this makes the joint stronger.

 

[Mike Jordan]

Hi Walt
My apologies for failing to welcome you before holding forth on my prejudice against the pocket hole jig, also for not at least suggesting an alternative method. The cost of the jig takes you quite a way towards the cost of a power router which can make pocket holes in a much better way in my opinion. I have a couple of methods in mind but it will be much easier to make a couple of joints tomorrow and take a photo or two to show the advantages.
Mike.

 

[worn thumbs]

I had an e-mail offering such a jig as a "Black Friday" promotion.Clearly somebody needed to move some stock off the shelves.

 

[Pord]

I love pocket holes. So damn easy and efficient. I use the Kreg single hole jig, which is portable and quick. Stick it in your pocket and use it with a speed clamp anywhere in or out the workshop. No need for the fancy Kreg screws, I use standard screws and an appropriate clutch setting on my screwdrill.

I've built everything from a Paulk workbench to sheds to a big sliding workshop door with mine. The workbench was 12mm ply and the pocket holes worked brilliantly.

Can't recommend it highly enough.

 

[novocaine]

I needed to do a temporary fix to the bottom of the back door on our new house when we moved it as the previous owner had cut 20mm of it and it was nearly above the threshold (seriously, I don't get some people). I didn't have the time nor the money to replace the door or remove it from service. the pocket hole jig was perfect to attach a strip of ash across the bottom of the door with a dash of glue for good measure. a quick spin of a stick in a dowel plate and the holes were filled in and painted over with no one the wiser. the back door is going soon, it's been a temporary fix for nearly 5 years, nothing is more permanent that a temporary fix that works.

I've also used it to pull a badly fitted door frame together (Garage door), quickly knock up a window frame when some arse tried to break in by pulling the rather rotten frame away (only to find a set of steel bars set in to the concrete behind the obscured window), knock up a number of quick cabinet carcasses for a multitude of places, attached shelves to walls with hidden fixings the list goes on. yes I can make a pocket hole with a drill and it will be acceptable and do the job, but it takes as long as with the jig and it's perfect and identical every time, which is what a jig is for.

buy the single, if you like it and decide to upgrade, you are only out a tenner, if you hate it and it gets buried in the pile of "waste of money, for the inexperienced" tools. it's a tenner, a router with a suitable bit and the various attachments is going to set you back quite a bit more, isn't going to fit in your pocket and isn't going to be able to be used in situ when you "just need to pull up a joint".

Sorry mike, but you're wrong on this one, this is the most efficient way of make a perfect pocket hole, yes there are other ways, but this beats them all in at least one way depending on the method, it's neater than just drilling it, it's cheaper than a router and it's more mobile than mortiser, I understand why you see it as a waste and not "proper" woodwork, but it does serve and purpose.

also, don't bother with the real screws, put a washer round your normal countersunk screw to turn it in to a flat head that doesn't bind as it contacts the bore (think I pay 2 quid for 500 3x7mm washers.

 

[Mike Jordan]

As promised these are photos of alternative methods of pocket screwing, I've made no secret of the fact that I regard these as second rate fixing methods whether made by jig or by hand, but they are useful on rare occasions.

 

[Mike Jordan]

Ive managed to remove some text from the last post. The top shot is just to prove that I do make use of jigs and templates ( that's only about a third of them) Most are labelled with the cutter size and guide bush details to avoid having to work it out each time. The bottom shot has the standard pocket screw joint on the left together with the chisel and incannel gouge used to make it. The centre one has a tongue and groove to locate it and stop the slide that tends to occur as the screws are tightened. On the right the recesses have been cut with a 12mm router bit.
The jigs may have a following but I still say that a long drill and a shop made jig will do the job just as well if you rate this as a fixing method.
Mike.

 

[whiskywill]

a power router which can make pocket holes in a much better way i

I am curious. :? How do you cut pocket holes with a router?

 

[Mike Jordan]

If you go back a couple of posts there is a photo showing the method, it beats £85 for a jig.
Mike.

 

[AES]

I'm also interested in the router method Mike. Is it hand held or have you made a jig to hold the machine at an angle?

Also, NOT nit picking, 'onhest, but going back to your earlier pix, it seems some of those pocket holes have been cut/opened up with a gouge - in fact I think there's a gouge in one of the pix. If so, one small disadvantage of that method, as opposed to using the Kreg jig (I can't talk about any others) is the fact that with the Kreg you end up with a completely circular hole which is therefore very easy to full with a scrap of dowel (cut off and sanded flush afterwards of course).

With the gouge method the hole seems not only bigger but also somewhat elliptical, meaning, I guess, filling with a paste filler of some sort, no?

I do agree that my Kreg K4 was not cheap (I forget how much, but you're in about the right ballpark I think), BUT the price did include a large selection of high quality screws as well as the drill, driver bit, depth stop, etc. And the quality of all the stuff in the kit really is first class, so as I said to Walt in my original post, IMO will last an honest lifetime.

 

[Mike Jordan]

Hi AES
The router grooves are of equal depth throughout and were made using the normal router fence.
The hand made pockets are not normally filled in any way and don't need to look pretty since these were always considered to be out of sight fixings.
The use of special screws and special plugs to fill the holes is all part of the same money spinner as I see it.
If you wish to fill the holes, you could use a Forster bit in place of the router grooves and use the ready made pellets to fill them. Spending the money on a router might encourage the use of proper joints, the tongue and groove shown being a good example. ( I cheated and used the cross cut saw)
Mike.

 

[AES]

OK, thanks, understood. BTW, at the time I started the pedal car project I referred to in my first post here I didn't have a router either!