Knocking apart a table - advice needed

[angryarchitect]

Dear All,

I'm working on hobby project trying to restore an Edwardian table, and I've got some difficulties trying to knock apart the frame. My experience in woodworking/restoring is near zero and all I know is picked up from various restoration books, so apologies if this is a trivial question.

The picture shows a section of the frame from the top, after having the tabletop removed. I need to separate a piece pointed at by the arrow from the rest of the frame, and it seems to be stuck. The joint feels loose. When I rock the piece sideways the tenon tongue moves in the mortise, but it doesn't come out from the joint when I'm trying to knock it with a mallet from the other side. There was a nail driven into the piece, but I managed to saw it off through the slit with a hacksaw. I cannot find any other fasteners that may be holding the tenon in place. I thought it might be glue, so I injected some methylated spirit into the joint in hope that it would soften it, but it didn't seem to have any effect.

So I'm out of ideas at the moment. Is there a trick I might be missing or does it just need to be hammered harder? Maybe someone had experience taking apart similar tables and knows something? Would appreciate any advice!

 

[blackrodd]

Hello Angry Architect and welcome. the angled cleat should be removed, and see if there are any more nails.
These were added later usually as a quick repair.
Assuming you have carefully checked for any dowels. get a frame hacksaw blade and fit it into the tenons, each side, and at the ends and saw any clearances or through any nails, until the reach the mortice bottoms, then they should be clear.
Make a handle from cloth and tape for the hacksaw blade.
HTH Regards Rodders

PS Did you cut both sides of that nail off?
Rodders

 

[angryarchitect]

Thanks Rodders,

If I understand correctly by angle cleat you mean that piece with triangular cross-section on the left hand side on the photo. There's no apparent way to remove it so I hoped it would come off somehow at a later stage, but I will take a closer look again. It is not load bearing, so it might be just sitting there glued hiding a couple of nails. Will give it a try tomorrow. I wish I had a portable X-ray machine...

The nail wasn't going through the tenon, it was driven into the body of the piece, so there was only one side to cut off.

 

[Mr T]

I agree with Rodders that you should try taking the glue block off to see if the there are any nails underneath. It appears there are nails going the other way into the adjacent tenon so there may be some under there.


When you knock it apart it may be worth clamping to hold the outer edge of the leg as it looks like there is a crack there.

Chris

 

[SteveF]

are these nail marks

could one of them be driven at an angle

Steve

 

[custard]

I'd guess there's a nail in there somewhere, otherwise that frame should be falling apart all by itself!

Those mortice & tenons are a long way from "first class work", the tenon isn't centred on the apron rail, and it emerges from the top of the leg full length without a haunch.

I wonder if the glue block is original, or if it was a later addition when the sloppy joinery started to reveal itself in a wobbly leg? In any event, the first order of business should be to get that glue block off. If it's stuck on with traditional hide glue then your luck's in, covering the glue block with some rags that have been soaked in boiling water and then wrung out (wear gloves!) will loosen the glue and eventually it'll come away. If modern PVA glue was used it should still come off without too much work because I very much doubt it was ever clamped in place, it's just a rub joint and therefore an old chisel should pop the bond. I'd start with the lower surface in the photo as on that face the grain in the apron and the grain in the glue block run at 90 degrees to each other, so the joint will likely be weakest.

Good luck!

 

[Ed Bray]

I suspect they are nail holes, but I think they more likely go straight down into the other tenon. This would make me believe that there are possibly 2 similar nails under the angled glue block which go into the tenon you are trying to remove.

 

[Matt@]

there looks some slight give both sides of the tenon. Try getting a small thin palette knife down each gap and that will tell you if there are hidden nails. If a tenon is loose but wont come out its 99% a nail holding it. The other cause is a wedged tenon but doubt this joint would be made this way