knife sharpening

[Harbo]

Sorry Grandma Jacob, I didn't realise you were the only person on this thread - of course a world renowned sharpening guru like yourself would not need to be made aware of this? Back to sucking eggs!
I'm surprised you don't sharpen your stuff on your doorstep - my Grandmother did.


Rod

 

[Jacob]

Did you mean concave along the length being no good for chopping herbs? Is a bit obvious I must say. But flat isn't essential - a convex curve is fine.
But I sense another world of knife toolery out there who have all sorts of notions.

 

[Kalimna]

You are of course correct, Jacob. You don't need a straight blade to chop herbs, but it does make life easier.

Adam

 

[bugbear]

If you are going to use the knives for fine cutting like herbs it's essential to keep the blade flat.
Trying to chop leaves with a concave blade is hopeless?

Rod

Concave is hopeless for anything where you're cutting down onto a board - probably OK for carvery-style mid air carving and not much else.

You do see a lot of concave carving knves at car boot sales, from the house clearance guys.

BugBear

 

[Harbo]

You should read peoples posts more carefully Jacob, instead of pouring out your usual snidey remarks and attempts at put-downs?

I clearly said concave and to someone so expertise and knowledgeable about sharpening as yourself I didn't think I needed to spell out "that along its length" is what I meant.

Convex is fine and the traditional herb cutting knife the Mezzaluna is of that shape. But a knife concave along its length is hopeless especially if you use the traditional, accepted, historic method of rocking the knife from its point.

Rod

 

[Jacob]

TBH I couldn't see what you meant as "concave along the length" is so obviously unsuitable for chopping on a board as to be hardly worth the mention. Instead thought you were talking about bevels. Yes and convex along the length work just fine! Sorry if it came over as snide! But there are so many people out there laying down the law on how to do things "correctly".
Concave is OK for carving though but I don't suppose it has any purpose. Carving knives with both dips and hollows are common - from years of sharpening the same way, with a steel.

 

[Wood Monkey]

I've just purchased one of these - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plus-3-Blac...d=1386924048&sr=1-49&keywords=knife+sharpener and I can let you know how I get on.

The story is.... We were at a friends for Sunday lunch and they had Wiltshire Knives (sold in Australia) which came in their own sharpening sheath. The blades were very sharp. Our kitchen knives always annoy me as they are always so blunt. My good lady never attempts to sharpen then and instead I usually do it when I have my Tormek set up.

The theory behind the new sharpener is that it can sit in the kitchen drawer and the knives can get a couple of swipes each time they are used.

I may even wrap it up and call it a Christmas present... .

 

[Benchwayze]

If they are anywhere near sharp/ish, use the butchers' trick of honing them on the back edge of another knife. This renews the edge easily, and when it doesn't work, it's time to go to the stone. :wink:

HTH

 

[bugbear]

With all due deference to butchers, if you want some super-hot technique on knife sharpening, listen to a fish monger.

Most meat cuts rather nicely; fish not so much.

BugBear

 

[joethedrummer]

If they are anywhere near sharp/ish, use the butchers' trick of honing them on the back edge of another knife. This renews the edge easily, and when it doesn't work, it's time to go to the stone. :wink:

Hello John,,,that took me back about 30 years when I did some building maintenance work for a local butcher,,I used to watch as the butchers honed their knives on the back of another knife.
Hanging on the wall, by a bit of string was a steel or two which they used now and again with that "flick flacking" motion that can only come from experience.
I recall that every couple of weeks or so a tinker type (that can"t be PC) visited on a converted bicycle which had a sandstone? wheel at the rear at which he sat backwards and reground some of the butchers knives, yes, he pedalled backwards.
At the end of one job, Jim the butcher spotted me eyeing the sharpness of some of the knives and gathered a few which he gave to me and which are still serving well although they are not sharpened on a steel, I got one of those fangly sharpeners!
Jim is now dead and gone along with old matey with the converted bike but the knives are still in use.
Sorry,, I drifted off,, when the thread is about knife sharpening,,,,

 

[Benchwayze]

Drifted off eh? I'll give you a nudge when Christmas is over Joe. You'll think it was all a bad dream!

Al the best
John

 

[joethedrummer]

Drifted off eh? I'll give you a nudge when Christmas is over Joe. You'll think it was all a bad dream!

Al the best
John

HAS he been yet????

 

[Benchwayze]

Nope. My radiators are still there! :mrgreen:

 

[joethedrummer]

Nope. My radiators are still there! :mrgreen:

Radiators ,,,,Drummers,,,,Knives,,, there has got to be a link somewhere,,,,,

 

[RossJarvis]

Nope. My radiators are still there! :mrgreen:

Maybe you didn't put a high enough price on them. Up it by 20quid each!

 

[Benchwayze]

Sorry Joe,

it was another thread, to do with radiators. I was confuzzled.

I'll try that Ross!
cheers

:deer :ho2

 

[Jonzjob]

I sharpen our knives on a diamond 'steel' and they are always sharp, until SWMBO gets to trying to slice the steel dish/plate or whatever the object under the knife is sat on. When she tells me it ain't sharp and I look and can see reflected light off of what should be the edge it goes onto mt DMT whet stone, the pocket version fr the little ones or the 10" DMT bench 'stone' for the biggies and they come back good enogh to shave by, if I didn't have a beard that is.

Lets not get onto one of our members who keeps on trying to show just how good and so much better than we poor mortals. It is a very heavy cross to bear being perfect in the land of imperfection. To be born an expert is no mean feat and we must stand in awe and listen. In this season of good will we must try?

By the way, I learned how to sharpen knives from my father. He taught me all of the ways not to do it and what was left is good stuff, bless his black heart!

 

[heatherw]

I do feel a certain sympathy for Jacobs point of view on this one :ie: just do it!

While there are definitely many ways of sharpening knives, the cheapest way is with whatever you already have in the house. In my case it's my grandma's old sharpening steel and my 30 year old oilstone. I find I need to go to the oilstone about once a year, and it's incredibly easy to get a sharp edge on the knife with it, though it's better (and slightly more difficult) to use the edge of the stone to avoid hollowing the face and thus messing up subsequent plane and chisel sharpenings. I had no problem learning how to do this (not like sharpening a bowl gouge, for instance) it's really straightforward and there is quite a lot of margin for error.

In my parents house there is a carving knife which has lived in a box with its own steel for the last 50 years and as far as I know it's never seen another method of sharpening. However, it's only used once a week to cut the sunday joint, and doesn't get to touch metal or chopping boards or marble.

What I want to know is whether you can use an oilstone and steel to sharpen ceramic knives? I can imagine they might clog the stone.

 

[Zeddedhed]

I get my local butcher to sharpen my knives. Not 'cos I can't do it - I just like to watch him do his thing with a steel and make the 'flick flacking' sound as joethedrummer so aptly put it.
It takes him about 2 minutes to get my three favourite knives (big chef knife, long whippy carving knife and small pointy paring knife) absolutely insanely sharp, and he does it with a huge smile on his face and normally chucks me a bag of free range chicken wings for making soup for nowt. Admittedly I do spend a LOT of money on rare breed pork, venison and poncy sausages…..hey ho - whats a bloke to do?

 

[Jonzjob]

I use my DMT diamond sharpener or our diamond 'steel'. I gave up using our Sabatier steel after a few years because it was too soft and didn't do the job any more. It was used for sharpening our Sabatier knives.

An answer from Ifixit answers

"Unless you are cutting other ceramics or diamonds, these knives should almost never get dull. Use a wood or bamboo cutting board (ceramic, glass or metal is a no-no) and push less. They cut so well because they are so much harder than anything you will encounter in cooking. Bone has a hardness of about 3.5, steel knives about 6.5 and ceramic knives about 9.5. Diamonds are 10.

If you really want to sharpen them you will need a fine or very fine diamond sharpener. The diamond size should be as small as you can get 1000 or more (6 microns or smaller). DMT makes good ones. You can find diamond sharpeners at better Hardware, Wood Working and Sporting Goods stores and they should cost $20 to $60. The trouble is ceramic is so hard it will take a lot of effort to restore the edge. Use water to lubricate and clean your sharpener. Be prepared to rub (use light pressure) about a dozen times, rinse the diamond and repeat many, many times. Inspect the edge with a magnifying glass. General knife sharpening rules apply.

If you look carefully at the very edge of the blade you will see that it is sharpened at an angle that is different from the rest of the blade, try to match that angle. A sharper angle will result in a sharper knife for a little while until the edge chips off in your food (generally not good). A more 'blunt' angle will last longer, but will not cut as well."