Kity K5 starter capacitor

[D1Hil]

Hi all,
I've had a kity K5 for a while now an it's worked fine apart from spindle moulder belt slipping. Recently the motor started to struggle to accelerate when the belt is on but is fine without a load. I know these are the symptoms of a starter capacitor so I bought a 20uF cbb60 capacitor replacement. Fitted but with no difference? Anyone know what other issues could be causing this?
Thanks

 

[baldkev]

Hiya, usually if the cap is faulty, it'll struggle to do the initial turn, but as soon as the turn starts the motor would pick up as normal and have full power.... so i guess the motor may have developed a fault?
Hopefully @Spectric @deema or @Sideways will see this

 

[D1Hil]

Hiya, usually if the cap is faulty, it'll struggle to do the initial turn, but as soon as the turn starts the motor would pick up as normal and have full power.... so i guess the motor may have developed a fault?
Hopefully @Spectric @deema or @Sideways will see this

Yes, it will spin fine without the belt on, it just struggles to get moving with a load and normally stays at about 200rpm until the overload switches it off.

 

[baldkev]

Sounds like the motor is fried, but I am no expert

 

[okeydokey]

Does the spindle moulder/pulley turn easily by hand? If not perhaps the issue is in that bearing area and not a motor issue

 

[Johnwa]

Remove the belt from the motor, run the motor for a few minutes, if it doesnt trip the overload the motor is probably fine, if it does trip the overload then you're looking for a new motor or a rewind. Replace the belt and run again, does it start ok. Run it and if it trips the overload somethings tightened up or is jamming the machine. Have a look around for wood stuck between cutters and the machine beds etc. Next step is to check to see if spinny bits spin freely,. Most likely cause after checking for wood jamming is a bearing needs greasing or replacing. Good luck, there are K5 owners on here who can be more detailed about the machine, I don't even know what it is lol. There are also a couple of members who strip and rebuild machine tools, I would imagine they could chuck in their two pennorth
Regards
John

 

[D1Hil]

Remove the belt from the motor, run the motor for a few minutes, if it doesnt trip the overload the motor is probably fine, if it does trip the overload then you're looking for a new motor or a rewind. Replace the belt and run again, does it start ok. Run it and if it trips the overload somethings tightened up or is jamming the machine. Have a look around for wood stuck between cutters and the machine beds etc. Next step is to check to see if spinny bits spin freely,. Most likely cause after checking for wood jamming is a bearing needs greasing or replacing. Good luck, there are K5 owners on here who can be more detailed about the machine, I don't even know what it is lol. There are also a couple of members who strip and rebuild machine tools, I would imagine they could chuck in their two pennorth
Regards
John

Does the spindle moulder/pulley turn easily by hand? If not perhaps the issue is in that bearing area and not a motor issue

So, it will run fine at full speed with no belt on, when the belt is on it runs slowly for about 10 seconds then trips. I'll check how freely the pulleys are. It seems to be all problems with starter capacitor from what I know so was surprised when it didn't solve the issue?

 

[bourbon]

So you have now ruled out the motor being at fault. next is the bearings. check and clean them well. I don't know this machine. are they sealed bearings or have they got grease nipples on them?

 

[Myfordman]

Whilst a duff start capacitor is often the most likely/cheapest to speculate fault. The next most likely to investigate is the centrifugal switch. These cannot be replaced usually and are bespoke to a particular motor maker and the frame size but quite often the contacts can be cleaned and in extremis replacement springy bits can be fashioned by the sort of handy people that inhabit practical groups like this.
Proceed with opening the motor carefully and all should become clear.
The switch should be closed until a reasonable speed is reached and then the switch stays open all the time when running. Then it closes during slow down with a slight rubbing sound reducing with motor speed.
Beware that kity motors are made of unobtainum and can be a pig to replace as typically motors of the same output power are one frame size bigger than the original with a larger diameter shaft and bigger body that often won’t fit the machine or the pulley.

 

[D1Hil]

Whilst a duff start capacitor is often the most likely/cheapest to speculate fault. The next most likely to investigate is the centrifugal switch. These cannot be replaced usually and are bespoke to a particular motor maker and the frame size but quite often the contacts can be cleaned and in extremis replacement springy bits can be fashioned by the sort of handy people that inhabit practical groups like this.
Proceed with opening the motor carefully and all should become clear.
The switch should be closed until a reasonable speed is reached and then the switch stays open all the time when running. Then it closes during slow down with a slight rubbing sound reducing with motor speed.
Beware that kity motors are made of unobtainum and can be a pig to replace as typically motors of the same output power are one frame size bigger than the original with a larger diameter shaft and bigger body that often won’t fit the machine or the pulley.

I will see if I can get the cover off an look at the switch. Also, for some reason my machine has a secondary switch box (MEM) that houses the overload heater element, as well as another cylinder with a plunger (must be some sort of solenoid). This is not standard in a K5, not sure why it's there, i'll get photo tommorow.

 

[D1Hil]

Whilst a duff start capacitor is often the most likely/cheapest to speculate fault. The next most likely to investigate is the centrifugal switch. These cannot be replaced usually and are bespoke to a particular motor maker and the frame size but quite often the contacts can be cleaned and in extremis replacement springy bits can be fashioned by the sort of handy people that inhabit practical groups like this.
Proceed with opening the motor carefully and all should become clear.
The switch should be closed until a reasonable speed is reached and then the switch stays open all the time when running. Then it closes during slow down with a slight rubbing sound reducing with motor speed.
Beware that kity motors are made of unobtainum and can be a pig to replace as typically motors of the same output power are one frame size bigger than the original with a larger diameter shaft and bigger body that often won’t fit the machine or the pulley.

I've managed to get the cover off! There doesn't seem to be any sort of centrifugal switch so I don't know what the capacitor connects to and can't see what else could be causing the problem? It's a very simplistic design, do you know what the two washers are for? I can tell it has overheated at some point, as the strings holding the coils together have melted.

 

[Myfordman]

The washers are take up any slack in locating the bearings in the housings. Sadly the windings have failed. Options are a rewind or replace. The former will be expensive and the latter might be difficult to get one to fit as I mentioned in an earlier reply.

 

[D1Hil]

The washers are take up any slack in locating the bearings in the housings. Sadly the windings have failed. Options are a rewind or replace. The former will be expensive and the latter might be difficult to get one to fit as I mentioned in an earlier reply.

Oh, that's annoying! Is the coating on the windings supposed to be black?

 

[Myfordman]

Nope, it’s meant to be shades of amber!
A bit like this.