Kell No 3 honing guide - worth it??

[Jacob]

In the sailing world they say engines (in sail boats) aren't much use without marinas, and marinas aren't much use without engines.

It's similar with the Kell guide and the scary sharp system!

Don't quite follow that.
Having sailed around the Scottish and the Channel islands a few times in marina free territory and I can tell you that engines are very handy - bigger the better what with tidal races, Corryvreckan, races down each side of Alderney, getting out of the Solent etc. etc.
Have also helped sail and/or row an engineless 27ft sailing boat in and out of marinas at various times.

 

[dunbarhamlin]

I hear tell longships could make 30 knots powered by mead, bread and venison

 

[mark w]

Why not buy the Veritas mark 2, cheaper and easier to use.

Mark W

 

[matthewwh]

Take your pick:

Wheelbase broader than the workpiece makes the Kell guide master of the blade, so it dictates square rather than accepting the blade's version of square. - Admittedly the Veritas is better than most in this regard.

A wedge will hold a blade more securely than a bar with a screw at either end - if you don't get the screw tension absolutely identical the blade will clamped more firmly on one side than the other.

With the Kell, if you make your rails a bit longer than the stone you can use the whole surface rather than having to subtract the distance between the roller and the edge.

Cheaper? Kell = £44.95, Veritas = £50.95

Easier to use? I'm not so sure, the Kell requres a little lateral thought but in use you just set the projection, squeeze the wedge home and hone. The Veritas is more prescriptive but it has more knobs and switches than a Norden bomb sight.

Will the Veritas do short bladed chisels, mortice chisels, skew chisels, fishtail chisels, tapered irons, plough plane irons, shoulder plane irons, scraper blades...?

Maybe I'm being too harsh, it is definitely the other best guide available and I do recommend the Veritas to anyone who doesn't get on with the Kell (and we don't even carry the Veritas). Like the rest of their product range it is certainly a well thought out and engineered bit of kit.

Personally though, I just love the simplicity of Richard's design - only two moving parts (the wheels) and yet with the application of a bit of nowse it will facilitate the accurate honing of just about anything in the 'shop. Somehow it's a more 'British' solution - 'You can keep your Norden bomb sight thank you, with a V shaped stick, two lights and a spinning bomb we can flood the whole valley!'

 

[Harlequin]

Somehow it's a more 'British' solution - 'You can keep your Norden bomb sight thank you, with a V shaped stick, two lights and a spinning bomb we can flood the whole valley!'

nice one Matt

Right I have adapted the DMT kit to the kell

The 8000 stone is a bit thicker so using the cork shim allows me to hone a primary bevel on all stones upto the green extrafine.
Removing the shim allows the 8000 grit stone to lie about 1.8 mm below the level - which allows a secondary bevel .
the pics are self explanatary I think

 

[mark w]

The veritas will do mortice chisels, skew chisels, fishtail chisels, tapered irons, plough plane irons, shoulder plane irons, scraper blades and japanese chisels which are quite short.
As for the price don`t forget to add the time and cost of making all those jigs.
If anybody finds setting up a Veritas MK2 honing guide complicated I seriously question wether they should be handling sharp blades.
To say the Kell is a British solution is probably true, upper class idiosyncratic British is probably closer to the mark, I`ve just thought of a new name for it, "The Boris"

Mark W

 

[Alf]

Personally though, I just love the simplicity of Richard's design - only two moving parts (the wheels)...

Personally I'm assuming the only way the honing guide can get any more "User Adaptable" is if Richard starts selling just a pair of wheels... :wink:

Will the Veritas do short bladed chisels, mortice chisels, skew chisels, fishtail chisels, tapered irons, plough plane irons, shoulder plane irons, scraper blades...?

I think you might be having the side-clamping type jigs more in mind with this list, Matthew; the Veritas will do all - or most - of those. Mortise chisels are a pain in narrower sizes with pretty much any guide, and I doubt the Miracle Jig is any different. (Prove me wrong, you know you want to! :wink: ) Haven't used a scraper plane in so long, can't honestly remember what fits and what doesn't. But in all honesty I find the Mk2 over-complicated too. But then I think the Kell is under-complicated (Almost to the point of taking the mickey), and solving a problem I don't have. If a woodworker hasn't got the hand skills to get a jig to give him or her a square edge when required, then how in Hades will he or she have the hand skills to use that edge? And come to think of it, you need the skills to wedge the blade in the jig in order to achieve a square edge anyway. S'no good, the more I think about this jig, the dafter it seems to be. :?

 

[Jacob]

Personally though, I just love the simplicity of Richard's design - only two moving parts (the wheels)...

Personally I'm assuming the only way the honing guide can get any more "User Adaptable" is if Richard starts selling just a pair of wheels............. S'no good, the more I think about this jig, the dafter it seems to be. :?

:lol: :lol:
It's a development in the right direction IMHO.

The first honing jigs were not much good.

Later ones got more complicated, with lots of attachments, but were still not much good.

The Kell jig is evolution going in reverse; it's still not much good, one of the worst in fact.
But it is a pointer in the right direction; the next obvious step is no jig at all! (Ignoring Alf's "pair of wheels" suggestion.)

Then sharpening will be a lot easier for everybody.

 

[woodbloke]

S'no good, the more I think about this jig, the dafter it seems to be. :?

Al, true enough, it will always have it's naysayers and unbelievers and that's fine. However, it's only when you actually use one and see just how simple it is can the user appreciate it's worth...just my view :wink: - Rob