When Starmer promised us Change, we didn't realise he meant his staff and, probably, the cabinet! 
Keir Starmer
- Thread starter Delaney
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Good post - very clear and helpful.
Have you got a link to the Compas findings. Looked all over their site and can't find any mention of it.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Voting in the GE was wholly tactical - anyone but Tory. Seats where LD previously did well got disaffected Tory votes. Likewise Reform - allowed Tories to register a protest where the alternative was Labour. Whiter that white Labour cleaned up on the basis of a split Tory under the FPTP system - not through popular support.
0% to 14.3% is a testament to the Farage presentational skill set - not necessarily the policies.
The Rwanda deal was a complex and expensive exercise to circumvent the legal niceties. It was the result of successive government failures:
- extended asylum claim lead times,
- no clear rules defining who can/cannot stay having passed through entirely safe countries
- demonstrable inability to deport those not wanted (repeated appeals, ECHR)
- no sign of any improvement with the new government
They are economic migrants - they may have skill and talent of real benefit to their ultimate hosts.
Cowardice is not a fair assertion - other bits of the globe are not like the UK - police brutality is often the norm, "gay bashing" approved behaviour, religious bigotry encouraged. Were I confronted by such I doubt I would have the courage to stay and fight.
I missed this one. Goodness me, Tony, what a claim! On a scale of 1 - 10, how confident are you that what you've written is true?
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
True, but not necessarily right! However in assessing applications, appropriate regard should be had for the choice not to seek asylum earlier in their journey. A clear set of criteria is required (language, family, etc) to justify a positive decision. No government has published such.
A condition of EU membership is that countries must achieve stability in human rights, protection of minorities etc.. This cannot be an acceptable reason for continuing to the UK.
They are illegal until they claim asylum. It is illegal to seek entry to the UK without appropriate visas and passport. Asylum cannot be claimed outside the UK - they are de facto illegal immigrants.
A major improvement to process would be the capacity to apply outside the UK - I suspect that many/most asylum seekers have access to or own smart phone.
BTW I am not remotely convinced by Farage. However UK management of the asylum process, both illegal and legal, is woeful. There are difficult and controversial choices to be made. They require clear political leadership. No party has done other than the wholly ineffectual - Labour have only just started but I have little confidence.
ey_tony
Established Member
No one is blaming the underdog but logically if there isn't enough growth in the economy to fund the infrastructure/social policies needed to service the increase in the population due to migration then the more the population numbers rise, the more demand there will be on existing services and infrastructure which means either higher taxes or poorer quality services/social policies. There is no getting away from that irrespective of which side of the political divide one sits.
Economics ultimately trump everything and the sooner it is recognised the better.
If as you say there aren't enough jobs to go around which I'd agree then it's absolutely futile to keep allowing migration numbers to rise as it only serves to reduce the quality of life for those already living here.
Migration should be seriously curtailed until there is a definite increase in economic growth and then migration matched to demand for their labour.
The people of the UK simply can't afford to allow migrants to continue to access our social benefits system as they have been doing if they don't actually bring with them the essential skills which the UK needs.
I've just read about an Oxford University study which estimates that there could be as many as 745,000 illegal migrants already living here. If that is true then where are they getting their funds on which to live? They must be working illegally for dishonest employers who are undercutting honest employers/businesses or they are resorting to crime to fund their stay here. It has to be one or the other. They can't legally claim benefits etc so how are they sustaining themselves?
We don't know their criminal history or backgrounds and statistically migrants represent disproportionate numbers of inmates in the UK's jails. According to figures I've read they are up to are eight times more likely to receive a custodial sentence than white British which says something.
It can't all be prejudice by the courts toward migrants....
flying haggis
Established Member
OK then explain how all these "poor" refugees have financed a journey from hundreds or thousands of miles away then can pay thousands to get on a dinghy and cross the channel.
Surely if they were genuine they could afford a plane ticket and arrive in britain legally with documents but they all seem to arrive having "conviently" lost their passpoet so cant be sent back to their homeland or france. Quite why we have to spend millions a dat to look after them I dont know as they obviously had money to start with.
It's a form of Godwin's law.Got to page 4 before the asylum seekers came out.
Another example of that is when somebody posts up about buying a tablesaw.
Before too long someone will bring up tracksaws.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
Yes, but the track saw has been usurped by someone getting angry about Sawstop
Yorkieguy
Established Member
To the best of my knowledge and belief, there are no statistics on the proportion of immigrants (in terms of asylum seekers & refugees) in the prison population, but there are statistics on the ethic background, religion, of the population, and and country of origin of immigrants and foreign nationals.
Immigrants and foreign nationals:
76,869 British nationals were recorded in the prison population at the end of the first quarter of 2024, with10,422 foreign nationals, making up 11.9% of the total population, with an additional 578 having no nationality recorded.
You will se in the table at the link below, the proportion of White British, Black or Black British, Asian or Asian British, and other ethnic backgrounds, compared to the proportion of those categories in the population of Britain as a whole, with some explanation about the figures. No doubt you will draw your own conclusions, which may differ:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_prison_population
niemeyjt
Established Member
It seems they were contributors to a broader study:
https://irregularmigration.eu/wp-co...Irregular-Migrant-Population-in-Europe-v1.pdf
You’re making quite a mistake there.
People who have borderline personality disorders are often more intelligent and successful.
They might be good in business but should be no where near government.
Government woukd be far more successful with the average man being given the final call.
Belgium had no government for a year. They had higher growth than the annual average and the deficit shrunk.
People make the country work. Government has long passed its usefulness, after filling a few basic requirements. Now it just sits around getting in the way and regulating out lives merely to give it something to do.
And if course to top it off, it’s been overwhelmed by narcissistic types anyway. What could be better for someone who seeks to control and manipulate others, whilst enriching themselves?
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I've come to the conclusion that the GB in GB News stands for Gaslighting Britons
But they, like N.Farage and the right wing media know their target audience. One that appears incapable of critical thought.
But they, like N.Farage and the right wing media know their target audience. One that appears incapable of critical thought.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
I don't think Mr and Mrs Average are remotely capable of government, although I agree those seeking political success will often have somewhat skewed personalities.
I like the idea of small government - but not no government. Central government should confine itself to that which is necessary centrally - probably includes law and order, foreign and defence, major transport infrastructure, economic and fiscal management.
Other decisions should be delegated to a level where the most impacted can decide. Local democracy is a sorry mess made worse by centralised tinkering in the belief that electoral success endows them with supreme powers of judgement over local issues.
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Delaney, it is not BPD that is a concern; it is politicians with a Narcisstic Personality Disorder. I would imagine that this is far more prevalent, possibly more common than realised. Those with BPD are likely to be erratic and emotional. those with NPD are likely to be autocratic, dogmatic and insensitive to the concerns of others. Perhaps NPD is a pre-requisite for politics?
Regards from Perth
Derek
Delaney, it is not BPD that is a concern; it is politicians with a Narcisstic Personality Disorder. I would imagine that this is far more prevalent, possibly more common than realised. Those with BPD are likely to be erratic and emotional. those with NPD are likely to be autocratic, dogmatic and insensitive to the concerns of others. Perhaps NPD is a pre-requisite for politics?
I agree Derek. Narcissism as far as I am aware, is a ‘cluster B’ personality disorder, which falls under the umbrella of BPD’s.
Narcissism is my main concern. It is incredibly damaging and pernicious. Why we do not teach children in schools how to spot it, is baffling.
I agree Derek. Narcissism as far as I am aware, is a ‘cluster B’ personality disorder, which falls under the umbrella of BPD’s.
Narcissism is my main concern. It is incredibly damaging and pernicious. Why we do not teach children in schools how to spot it, is baffling.
What about people who come and don’t claim asylum? Are they not illegally entering the country. I suppose your argument is that they are not an immigrant unless they officially apply.
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