Jointing a table top

[grainoftruth]

I'm making a rustic oak table that will spend its life in the garden. I have used waney edged boards and need to joint the top. I don't want an open joint so have planed the edges to a good fit and am now wondering what to use to give the joint stability. Do I cross tongue with oak, use dowels, biscuits? Advice would be welcome, I don't have any jointing tools at present, though I'm happy to invest.
Thanks
Steve

 

[Doug B]

G of T.
If you have a router, you could run a slot in the edges & join the boards together with a ply tongue etc.
If you don`t have a router, i would buy one first in preference to buying a dedicated single jointing type machine, biscuit, domino etc. The router will be far more versatile.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I agree, a good router will repay itself manifold over its life. You don't have to go for the biggest on the market, indeed a very small router is jolly useful, but certainly get one big enough for the job and choose quality over price. There is more advice on here about which router to buy than you can shake a stick at, just search the Buying Advice forum for Router and you are set for the next week's entertainment.

I would make solid oak (or WBP) splines fitted across the grain. Biscuits are a ver bad idea, DAMHIKT. Dowels are difficult unless you have a proper jig and add little to the strength of the joint, they only help with alignment, really. A groove and splines is a much better solution.

Glue is another consideration. I've not had much joy with polyurethanes, even though they are supposed to be waterproof. My last outdoor project I used Titebond 3. So far so good, although it is in a sheltered location and doesn't get rained on.

Welcome to the forum!
S

 

[crazylilting]

I have recently learned about a glue called resintite from a well established woodworker i know. You have to mix it with water but he swears by it for all his outdoor applications.

I am fairly new to the UK and the glues here are different then in Canada where i'm from. When i did do outdoor projects there i used a two part formaldehyde resin. Was very strong and stood up very well.

I noticed that the resintite is based on the formaldehyde resin so i would think that be the best choice.

As far as joinery it would depend on how you are laying the design out.

 

[grainoftruth]

Many thanks guys. I was tempted to invest in a router and you've settled the matter for me. I got myself rather confused in the tool store looking at all the jointing tools.

Looks like a weeks entertainment on router selection for me then - and some new glue!

Steve

 

[MickCheese]

You are probably not far from High Wycombe as I see you live in Bucks.

Why not pop up to Axminsters in Cressex and see what they have on offer by the way of routers.

There is also Issacc Lords who are very friendly and give good advice in the town centre.

Good luck

Mick

 

[NeilO]

Welcome to UKW, Steve.

I would agree with Mick, that Axminster and Isaac Lords in High Wycombe would be beneficial visits toward the choices you could have regarding tooling and sundries (ie glues, finishing products etc )

HTH

 

[grainoftruth]

Thanks Mick and Neil,

I did go to Axminster on Saturday to pick up a couple of things and it was there that I managed to get myself confused about the best jointing tools -there's an enormous selection and in the absence of some experienced advice it's difficult to know what's the best for the job and best value for money. I usually work on the principle that you get what you pay for, but that can be a costly approach.

Now I'm convinced about a router at least I've narrowed it down.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Ross K]

The most important thing with edge jointing is that the mating faces meet as perfectly as possible. Machine planed edges achieve this in the most efficient way. Additional fixings such as biscuits or dominos or a floating tongue ensure faces are aligned and can add additional strength by increasing glued surface area.

I don't agree that biscuits are a waste of time. Using a good quality biscuit (eg Lamello), a sharp cutter, employing double rows where possible but above all else having perfectly matching faces makes an extremely strong, reliable joint. The makers in our cooperative have been jointing table tops and large flat sections like this for the last twelve years without failure.

The USA market seems to prefer comb type profiled edges via spindle moulder which do look as bullet proof as you can probably get an edge joint but it lends a factory-made look in my opinion.

 

[NeilO]

Hi Steve,

regarding a router, if your funds will allow , think hard about a Dewalt 625 1/2" router, a good reliable workhorse and certainly up to the task you have in mind.
there are others to mention, Hitachi, Makita Bosch and Trend to name a few and I think several members have the RYOBI brand router ( dont personally own said router, but if their +1 series of tools are anything to go by, a good value for money purchase)

and your more than welcome to pop over and discuss tools and woodworking with a "local" member.

HTH

 

[crazylilting]

I was thinking a bit more about the joinery and since you are getting a router I would consider using a reversible glue joint bit. If you google it you will see what i'm talking about. If you make the outer edged peices longer then the inside slats you can join the ends with a spline to keep the table flat and hide the glue joints of the table top.

Also i agree with the dewalt 625. I've recently bought to of them. I had all my hand tools stolen out of the car and have been replacing them, and after reading many reviews I wanted the festool 2200 but the price is just to much for me to take on. So i got two of the dewalts. They are a real work horse.

 

[grainoftruth]

Thanks guys,

Actually I'm just starting kit out my workshop. I've been making things for years but with tools I got from my father who used to be a joiner. So I plane things up with a jack plane and hand saw most things. I did treat myself to a thicknesser recently but otherwise a 25 year old Bosch drill has been the mainstay of my power tools.

I think I'll be asking for your help quite often.

Steve

 

[Night Train]

The most important thing with edge jointing is that the mating faces meet as perfectly as possible. Machine planed edges achieve this in the most efficient way.

I would still hand plane a machine planed edge as the rotating cutter of a surface planer leaves shallow scallops in the edge and this will weaken the joint and may show a glue line in the finished piece.

 

[Shultzy]

Night Train, I fail to see why a surface planer would leave shallow scallops. This would only happen if the speed of wood going over the planer was greater than the rotational speed of the cutters, which I think is highly unlikely.

 

[SBJ]

A planer does leave shallow scallops in the surface of the wood, have a look next time you are in the workshop. You are right that the speed of the timber passing across the blades does have an effect.

A hand plane on the other hand can leave a perfectly flat surface if used correctly(!).[/u]

 

[Night Train]

You will also notice the scallops when you make the first pass with a very finely set up plane. The shavings will ripple as the plane cuts through the corregated surface.

 

[stef]

I am also planing on making a rustic oak table (indoor use though)
and for jointing boards up, i though of something. (at least to make sure they meet nice and square along there whole length)
to prepare the 2 boards to be joined :
-Clamp both down, more or less in the position they will be when glued, but set them around 5-10mm apart.
clamp them firmly.
prepare a straight edge to use as a router guide which you clamp on one board. set in such a way that the router axis reaches right in the middle of the gap you left between the boards.

now route, using a straight flute, slighty wider than the gap you left. make sure the router will take a bite on both sides at all time.

hopefully, any defect will apear on both side, but reversed..

would this work ?

 

[JonnyD]

The biggest thing to watch out for if you join a board this way is that you will be climb cutting against the rotation on one of the boards and the router could snatch quite easily. Probably be easier and safer to route each board separately against a known straight edge if you want to use the router.

Jon

 

[dennis]

As long as the cutter is perfectly true it should be fine.But say the cutter was ever so slightly tapered, this defect would be doubled.

Dennis

 

[Steve Maskery]

Yes, whilst this is possible, it's far from ideal.

Personally I can't see why anyone would not want to take a swipe with a jointer plane, it takes but a moment and does the job properly.

BTW, the scallops are the reason why the planer knives are set fractionally higher than the outfeed table. The top of the knives cut the wood, but the bottom of the scallops sit on the bed.

Got to go, Roger is in trouble and it's Super Bandsawman to the rescue!
S