Japanese saws

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Karl

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Anybody got any experience of these? How do they hold up when cutting hardwoods?

I have used one before, but didn't get to try it out on hardwood.

I am thinking about getting one of the smaller "tenon" saws like this one.

Cheers

Karl
 
have used one at college, it was one of the general purpose ones (for rip and cross-cuts) and it was ok. I would say it was for joinery work, not so much for the heavy stuff I do. I use spear and jackson, think they're called predator x, or irwin jack saws.

I won't insult you by telling you they cut on the pull, but will only say they are a very fine cut and the gaffer thinks they are real special!!!

Only answered cos no-one else had, sure you will get far more qualified response from other forum members, just have to wait a while.

What are you using it for, furniture?

HTH

Neil
 
Hi karl,

Not so much authentic japanese saws but I do use Vaughan Bear saws...
these are based on japanese design, but using more modern materials.
I have a double edged one , suitable for cross and rip cuts, a general purpose medium cut, and a fine cut one the latter two have pistol grip handles where as the d/edged one has the more traditional long straight handle more expected on a japanese saw..
I bought them some time ago from Isaac Lords, not sure if they still stock them..
in use I found them a little frustrating at first, but then I was at fault , still trying to get a cut on the push stroke, once learned they cut like a hot knife through butter( or seem to, because its much less effort to keep the blade straight ) and have tried them on just about everything your likely to find in your shop from MDF, Chipboard plain & MFC,PVC pipe softwood and hardwood, and would honestly recommend you at least giving them (japanese saws in general) a go....some people find them easy to use , others hate them, you just have to remember they cut on the PULL stroke not wanting to preach, but the sawing action with western saws is a habit you will have to break to get them feeling right, speaking from a guy who knows :oops:
 
I use the disposable blade ones from Axminster. Once you get the hang of cutting on the pull stroke they are brilliant.

Roy
 
I've got a couple of those and they are pretty good. I've also got a couple of Sharksaws from Rutlands, and they are even better.They look cheap (they ARE cheap) but they cut very well.
 
I've a couple of japanese saws (Ryoby, douzuki amd kataba) the makers are (or is it believe since my Japanese reading skill are below bad) kumagoro, z-saw and sharksaws.

They are very fine saws and have had no problems with hardwoods.
 
Good write up on Jap saws in the latest issue of F&C btw if it's any use. Tried them a while ago, couldn't get on with them :( - Rob
 
I have western and japanese saws and like the both.

I bought a small 6" saw from APT a few years back which is great for delicate work.
I have just been using it to cut some very shallow tenon shoulders 1/8" deep in oak where my western saws seemed just too big (including my Wenzloffs :( )
I had used my new very thin Meat and Fish blade in my bandsaw to do most of the cutting. I did 50 tenons yesterday afternoon and I am very impressed with it. The blade is so fine and accurate.
The only problem is that a good light is required as it is difficult to make out the cutting edge!!

Rod :)
 
I have a set of bridge city japanese saws, they were pricey but feel great in use. They are my only experience of japanese saws, but so far they have worked out just fine for dovetails in walnut/cherry/oak and ash as well as softwoods, cutting tenon shoulders and other general work like facings and skirtings, beads, and astragals for sash and case windows.

The kataba that I have is (correct me if i'm wrong) the blade John Economaki has in his Jointmaker Pro as seen elsewhere on this forum.

Andy.
 
karl":2yvzgzl1 said:
Anybody got any experience of these? How do they hold up when cutting hardwoods?

I have used one before, but didn't get to try it out on hardwood.

I am thinking about getting one of the smaller "tenon" saws like this one.

Cheers

Karl

That's a pretty good saw. Even the price is decent (from what I've seen tool prices in the UK are just unreal). I have one and like it quite a bit. It's not in the same league as a Yataiki or a Mitsukawa, but it's not in the same price range either :wink:

It won't cut dovetails as fast as a rip dozuki, still the speed is reasonable. And the teeth hold just fine in hardwoods.

Fine Woodworking ranked it best overall (and best value) in a review done a couple years ago.

DC-C
 
Thanks for all the replies.

I had been thinking about buying one of the Lie Nielsen straight handled saws for small bench work. Obviously this could be re-sharpened as and when.

I believe I am right in saying that the (cheaper) jap saws can't be re-sharpened. So how well do the blades hold up before they need to be replaced with a new blade?

I know it is a subjective matter (amount of work you do etc). But any pointers welcome.

Cheers

Karl
 
It should be possible to resharpen a japanese saw, however this would require a special saw file that is very thin tipped and it would especially require a lot of skill.

It would probably more cost and time efficient to just buy a new blade or have it resharpened by a Japanese saw maker if they would be willing to do that and shipping cost where low enough.

It seems the Japanese saw teeth last far/awful lot longer then western saw teeth.
 
karl":2c62ilvu said:
I believe I am right in saying that the (cheaper) jap saws can't be re-sharpened. So how well do the blades hold up before they need to be replaced with a new blade?

This Z-Saw, like many if not most affordable Japanese saws, cannot be resharpened, as the teeth are impulse-hardened. I read somewhere that the Z-Saws are hardened to Rc70, basically as hard or harder than files. Bottom line, forget sharpening those. Some think it is wasteful to throw away blades, but in reality they don't cost more than a professional sharpening service. Of course, if you sharpen your own saws, then a western saw would suit you better, but then you'd miss on what Japanese saws do.

High end Japanese saws can be sharpened, but this is beyond the capability of most people, at least for crosscut saws, as the teeth are shaped in a particular way (three different bevels if I recall). Rip saws are more like Western saws and can be resharpened fairly easily, but the Japanese approach involves more than just sharpening the teeth, it also involves re-tensioning the blade, and only pros can do that. The whole process is called metate in Japanese, and this is what makes top notch Japanese saws "sing". You have to try one to feel the way it works...

But that Z-Saw should last you a few years of regular use before you need to change the blade. After using the LV rip dozuki (excellent saw!) for a 3-4 years, I purchased another one, partly to see how the new saw would compare to the old one. Well, it was sharper than the old one, but not by much, which leads me to believe that it should easily last me ten years or so of amateur use.

Hope this helps,

DC-C
 
Thanks for all the replies.

I have decided to go for the LN straight handled crosscut saw, and one is on its way to me.

Cheers

Karl
 
I had the opportunity to use the LN straight handled saw at a woodworking seminar (I normally use Japanese saws, but only hand made at this point). It was super, as fast and accurate as my dozuki, very impressive.

LV also has some quality machine made dozuki, such as the Professional that I used for a couple or three years and the Professional rip that I haven't used.

Pam
 
pam niedermayer":ahovrxyk said:
I had the opportunity to use the LN straight handled saw at a woodworking seminar (I normally use Japanese saws, but only hand made at this point). It was super, as fast and accurate as my dozuki, very impressive.

LV also has some quality machine made dozuki, such as the Professional that I used for a couple or three years and the Professional rip that I haven't used.

Pam

Do you mean this one?

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=48338&cat=1,42884

It is very good...

DC-C
 
I have an azebiki and it is brilliant for starting a cut in the middle of a board - for stopped rebates & housings etc. For most jobs though I find a Western saw easier, but I guess it's a question of what one is used to. Oh and you can't beat a hassunme for cutting protruding end grain flush in joinery - the flexible blade means you can cut with the handle out of the way and it's quicker and neater than a plane with an amazing finish.... Never had any problem with them in hardwoods myself.

Marcus
 

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