Japanese chisels

[Michelle_K]

Hi all I was hoping for some advice. I really want to try a Japanese chisel. I currently use a cheap set of chisels as I am just starting out so don't have the cash to splash just yet but I am very curious about Japanese chisels.
I wondered if anyone could recommend a relatively cheap but still okay quality chisel.
I have done some research but as I don't really know what I am looking for as far as quality goes I was hoping to get some first hand advice. I have seen some chisels cost several hundreds for just one!
Thanks everyone

 

[yetloh]

Hi Michelle,

Japanese chisels are, by definition not all that cheap, unless you buy the non-laminated variety which are really just like a western chisel with a Japanese style handle, which rather defeats the point. I have been using these Ioroi chisels http://www.axminster.co.uk/japanese-oire-nomi-chisels-ax22847 for many years and have been pleased with them. They aren't cheap by some western standards but are reasonably priced by Japanese standards. You may find them cheaper elsewhere.

Dieter Schmid in Germany are very good and have a wider range than Axminster, such as these by Matsumara http://www.fine-tools.com/matsumura.html. They look to be rather cheaper and although I don't have personal experience of them I think they should be fine - Dieter Schmid are a good outfit.

Jim

 

[AJB Temple]

To be perfectly frank, unless you area habitual chisel user, you will struggle to detect any difference in performance between a sharp Western chisel and a sharp Japanese chisel irrespective of price. The technique of using Japanese tools is different in some respects but chisels are still functionally the same: they all chop, pare etc. Very fine Japanese chisels can deliver a certain pride in ownership, but not necessarily a detectable difference in performance.

I second Dieter Schmidt as a good supplier. The Matsumura chisels are perfectly OK, but are a basic hitachi white steel chisel and not sold as premium tools in Japan. To get the real deal you need to go for something like this: https://www.classichandtools.com/acatal ... gashi.html. Not cheap but they are good. Over the years I have brought a few very fine blue steel Kasumi style chisels back from my various trips to Japan, but what I actually use most day to day is Western chisels, in my case Lie Nielsen socket chisels that are a copy of teh old Stanley pattern. What makes by far the biggest difference is learning to get your chisels sharp enough with a durable edge.

Sadly there are few routes to very fine tools that are also cheap.

 

[Michelle_K]

Thanks for the advice i figured the chances of having cheap and still ok were slim but I thought I'd ask. I'll just wait until I'm in a better position to be able to afford a decent one. As for sharpening that has been an ongoing challenge for me but after months of practice I finally get a sharp edge. The issue I was having was the edge was not staying sharp for very long and if was getting very frustrating. At one point I was using the lidl chisels that everyone was raving about but I just couldn't get them to hold an edge. I had an old rusty chisel that I got from a boot fair a long wile ago and spent a day flattening and sharpening it and that holds a very good edge. In fact I have used it on three separate occasions quite heavily and it is still sharp and would only if anything need a quick go on a strop.
I use wet and dry sandpaper to sharpen at the moment which again isn't ideal. It's hit and miss how long the paper will last before it creases or tears and needs replacing. The paper tearing is so annoying when it is a fresh piece and technically should be good for two or three blades by hey ho. I am looking forward to the day I can invest in a set of stones. Hopefully the shapton glass stones. I know they are crazy expensive but from what I have seen and I have actually used one they are pretty amazing. They cut so fast and put such a good finish on the stone. I went from a 320 to 1500 grit wet and dry with no issue at all. Scratches went away. If I had used 320 sandpaper and jumped straight to 1500 wet and dry I'd have been there forever. I know I can't really compare sandpaper to shapton stones but you know what I mean.
Anyway thanks for the advice.

 

[Racers]

Get your self to a car boot sale or two and pick up some cast steel chisels I haven't found a duff one yet, and at 50p to £1 each they are far cheaper than any Japanese chisel.

Pete

 

[memzey]

Get your self to a car boot sale or two and pick up some cast steel chisels I haven't found a duff one yet, and at 50p to £1 each they are far cheaper than any Japanese chisel.

Pete

+1. I'm with Pete on this. My chisels are all old cast steel jobbies and work a treat.

 

[custard]

Adding Japanese Chisels to your tool box is a big decision. Not only are they fairly expensive (if they're any good) but they demand a pretty specialised approach to using and maintaining them. Here are just some of the hurdles you'll have to cross,

-if you use a honing guide there's every chance it won't accept some or all of your Japanese Chisels, very few honing guides are designed with Japanese Chisels in mind

-grinding is sometimes tricky because there's every chance the bevel side won't be parallel to the non bevel side, so placing it on a tool rest can often result in an angled bevel

-some honing media, like oil stones for example, may struggle to make any impression on the very hard sections of the laminated steel

-most (not all but most) Japanese Chisels are made with softer woods in mind, the brittleness of the steel can easily mean chipped edges on very hard timbers or if you exert even a tiny amount of leverage

-they rust very easily

-setting the hoop on the handle is a few hours work if you've not done it before, you'll probably need to make a couple of little gizmos to do the job neatly

-they're virtually all metric and it's tricky to find some "interim" sizes. For example I find 3/16" and 5/16" chisels to be really useful for dovetailing, I've found one brand of Japanese Chisels that has the equivalent sizes, but it wasn't easy tracking them down!

There are solutions to all these issues, but they're often a faff or expensive. I enjoy Japanese Chisels, but in all honesty there's nothing they provide that I can't achieve with western chisels. So by all means have a go, but just be aware of the headaches that can accompany them, and certainly don't buy one expecting it to be some miracle tool that will transform your woodwork, if you do I guarantee you'll be dissapointed.

Good luck!

 

[BearTricks]

My Lidl chisels hold an edge very well, to the point where I couldn't justify depending extra at the moment, and probably wouldn't until money became less of an issue.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Have a look at what I've sold -
chisels-and-gouges-for-sale-no-turning-or-carving-t97676.html
And I still pick up a Lidl/Aldi most days for something. The only real difference I could see was the Aldis had ash handles and the Lidls hornbeam.